The Deathbed Doctor: Weeks Before Death, Patients Start Having Visions! | Dr Christopher Kerr

interviewed 1,500 people as they're interviewed 1,500 people as they're about to die. And what our research has about to die. And what our research has about to die. And what our research has shown is nearly 90% of people start to shown is nearly 90% of people start to shown is nearly 90% of people start to have very intense dreams or visions as have very intense dreams or visions as have very intense dreams or visions as they get closer to death and it's unlike they get closer to death and it's unlike they get closer to death and it's unlike anything they've ever experienced. And anything they've ever experienced. And anything they've ever experienced. And what's fascinating is these events don't what's fascinating is these events don't what's fascinating is these events don't resemble delirium. When we ask them to resemble delirium. When we ask them to resemble delirium. When we ask them to scale it 0 to 10 on the degree of scale it 0 to 10 on the degree of scale it 0 to 10 on the degree of realism, it's always a 10. So [music] it realism, it's always a 10. So [music] it realism, it's always a 10. So [music] it feels like this actually happened. Tell feels like this actually happened. Tell feels like this actually happened. Tell me about those people. Would it help to me about those people. Would it help to me about those people. Would it help to see a video? see a video? see a video? So after doing this for 30 years, what So after doing this for 30 years, what So after doing this for 30 years, what I've come to understand is we've lost I've come to understand is we've lost I've come to understand is we've lost our way with dying. There's such a lack our way with dying. There's such a lack our way with dying. There's such a lack of information and that void is of information and that void is of information and that void is overwhelmingly felt with fear and overwhelmingly felt with fear and overwhelmingly felt with fear and mistruths compounded by the fact that mistruths compounded by the fact that mistruths compounded by the fact that doctors don't have these discussions. doctors don't have these discussions. doctors don't have these discussions. >> Can you list them for me? >> Can you list them for me? >> Can you list them for me? >> First, I don't see people bringing up >> First, I don't see people bringing up >> First, I don't see people bringing up regret towards the end of their life. regret towards the end of their life. regret towards the end of their life. They're not thinking about do they They're not thinking about do they They're not thinking about do they regret something? No. Hell no. No, it's regret something? No. Hell no. No, it's regret something? No. Hell no. No, it's gone. [clears throat] Death is [music] gone. [clears throat] Death is [music] gone. [clears throat] Death is [music] this unbelievably truthful place. You're this unbelievably truthful place. You're this unbelievably truthful place. You're stripped to the bare bones of who you stripped to the bare bones of who you stripped to the bare bones of who you are. And if you think of the best are. And if you think of the best are. And if you think of the best version of yourself, it was never version of yourself, it was never version of yourself, it was never achieving something. It was being a son, achieving something. It was being a son, achieving something. It was being a son, it was being a brother, [music] it was it was being a brother, [music] it was it was being a brother, [music] it was being a friend. And then the big myths being a friend. And then the big myths being a friend. And then the big myths are that pain is expected and that's are that pain is expected and that's are that pain is expected and that's actually not true. [music] It's less actually not true. [music] It's less actually not true. [music] It's less painful than people think. Oh gosh, by a painful than people think. Oh gosh, by a painful than people think. Oh gosh, by a mile. But it's damning how little mile. But it's damning how little mile. But it's damning how little conversations there are to address that conversations there are to address that conversations there are to address that issue. And then the next, this is what issue. And then the next, this is what issue. And then the next, this is what fascinates me. You're going to see why.

fascinates me. You're going to see why. fascinates me. You're going to see why. >> And also we have these six handwritten >> And also we have these six handwritten >> And also we have these six handwritten cards [music] of lessons you've learned cards [music] of lessons you've learned cards [music] of lessons you've learned from caring for the dying. We'll go into from caring for the dying. We'll go into from caring for the dying. We'll go into the full list but from everything you've the full list but from everything you've the full list but from everything you've experienced, do you think there is life experienced, do you think there is life experienced, do you think there is life after death? after death? after death? >> This is probably the most remarkable >> This is probably the most remarkable >> This is probably the most remarkable thing of all. So I think >> Here is a strange fact. Most of the >> Here is a strange fact. Most of the people watching this right now, about people watching this right now, about people watching this right now, about 58% of you, aren't yet subscribed to 58% of you, aren't yet subscribed to 58% of you, aren't yet subscribed to this channel. Statistically, that is this channel. Statistically, that is this channel. Statistically, that is probably you. So could I ask you a small probably you. So could I ask you a small probably you. So could I ask you a small favor? If this channel has ever given favor? If this channel has ever given favor? If this channel has ever given you any value at all, please could you you any value at all, please could you you any value at all, please could you do me a favor and hit the subscribe do me a favor and hit the subscribe do me a favor and hit the subscribe button. It costs nothing. It helps us button. It costs nothing. It helps us button. It costs nothing. It helps us more than you could know. And the bigger more than you could know. And the bigger more than you could know. And the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the the channel gets, as you've seen, the the channel gets, as you've seen, the more we invest in the guests and the more we invest in the guests and the more we invest in the guests and the production. So, thank you so much and I production. So, thank you so much and I production. So, thank you so much and I hope you enjoy this episode. >> [music] >> [music] >> Dr. Christopher Kerr. >> Dr. Christopher Kerr. >> Dr. Christopher Kerr. You've spent three decades of your life You've spent three decades of your life You've spent three decades of your life experiencing something that most of us experiencing something that most of us experiencing something that most of us probably spend our lives trying to probably spend our lives trying to probably spend our lives trying to avoid. avoid. avoid. What is it you've done for the last What is it you've done for the last What is it you've done for the last three decades?

three decades? three decades? >> I was trying to avoid it, too, but more >> I was trying to avoid it, too, but more >> I was trying to avoid it, too, but more by accident and I ended up by accident and I ended up by accident and I ended up becoming a hospice doctor. becoming a hospice doctor. becoming a hospice doctor. >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> A hospice doctor cares for that >> A hospice doctor cares for that >> A hospice doctor cares for that individual who is no longer deemed individual who is no longer deemed individual who is no longer deemed treatable. treatable. treatable. >> So, you've spent 30 years caring for >> So, you've spent 30 years caring for >> So, you've spent 30 years caring for people that are going to die shortly. people that are going to die shortly. people that are going to die shortly. Yes. Yes. Yes. And you started interviewing them. And you started interviewing them. And you started interviewing them. >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> Probably 1,500 at this point. >> Probably 1,500 at this point. >> Probably 1,500 at this point. >> Why did you start interviewing people >> Why did you start interviewing people >> Why did you start interviewing people that were about to die? that were about to die? that were about to die? >> Because their perspectives matter. I >> Because their perspectives matter. I >> Because their perspectives matter. I arrived to that hospice completely arrived to that hospice completely arrived to that hospice completely unprepared to be a doctor of the dying. unprepared to be a doctor of the dying. unprepared to be a doctor of the dying. Medical school prepares you really to to Medical school prepares you really to to Medical school prepares you really to to defeat death, not to care for those who defeat death, not to care for those who defeat death, not to care for those who are dying. But my colleagues, are dying. But my colleagues, are dying. But my colleagues, particularly in nursing, particularly in nursing, particularly in nursing, were much more tuned to what the actual were much more tuned to what the actual were much more tuned to what the actual patient was experiencing. What I've come patient was experiencing. What I've come patient was experiencing. What I've come to understand is what the patient to understand is what the patient to understand is what the patient perspective is the one that matters. perspective is the one that matters. perspective is the one that matters. And that when you start to see patients And that when you start to see patients And that when you start to see patients as people, you start to understand that as people, you start to understand that as people, you start to understand that they have these rich emotional and they have these rich emotional and they have these rich emotional and personal lives and that's what matters personal lives and that's what matters personal lives and that's what matters at the end of life.

at the end of life. at the end of life. >> How much research have you done? Cuz >> How much research have you done? Cuz >> How much research have you done? Cuz I've got I think 15 research papers here I've got I think 15 research papers here I've got I think 15 research papers here that you've published. that you've published. that you've published. >> done a lot. And we do very important >> done a lot. And we do very important >> done a lot. And we do very important things. So, we rule out confusion things. So, we rule out confusion things. So, we rule out confusion states. We've you done studies on states. We've you done studies on states. We've you done studies on post-traumatic growth to see whether post-traumatic growth to see whether post-traumatic growth to see whether within these negative experience of within these negative experience of within these negative experience of dying was there actually positive gain. dying was there actually positive gain. dying was there actually positive gain. We've looked at the effect on children. We've looked at the effect on children. We've looked at the effect on children. >> When children die? >> When children die? >> When children die? >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. And we've looked at the effect of these And we've looked at the effect of these And we've looked at the effect of these things on bereavement. You know, those things on bereavement. You know, those things on bereavement. You know, those left behind, how that influenced their left behind, how that influenced their left behind, how that influenced their bereavement. bereavement. bereavement. >> And you've also done a lot of research >> And you've also done a lot of research >> And you've also done a lot of research on the visions people see as they're on the visions people see as they're on the visions people see as they're dying and the dreams they have in the dying and the dreams they have in the dying and the dreams they have in the days leading up to their dying. days leading up to their dying. days leading up to their dying. >> Yes, that's the focus. The vast majority >> Yes, that's the focus. The vast majority >> Yes, that's the focus. The vast majority of people, nearly 90% of people, start of people, nearly 90% of people, start of people, nearly 90% of people, start to have very intense dreams or visions to have very intense dreams or visions to have very intense dreams or visions and the overriding theme is that they're and the overriding theme is that they're and the overriding theme is that they're seeing people who they've loved and who seeing people who they've loved and who seeing people who they've loved and who they've lost. And very specifically, they've lost. And very specifically, they've lost. And very specifically, it's those that have loved them it's those that have loved them it's those that have loved them unconditionally, purely. unconditionally, purely. unconditionally, purely. And those that didn't aren't there. And those that didn't aren't there. And those that didn't aren't there. Dying is progressive sleep. Your sleep Dying is progressive sleep. Your sleep Dying is progressive sleep. Your sleep architecture changes, your sleep cycles architecture changes, your sleep cycles architecture changes, your sleep cycles changes. And changes. And changes. And evermore you start to have these kind of evermore you start to have these kind of evermore you start to have these kind of inner experiences. It makes sense, inner experiences. It makes sense, inner experiences. It makes sense, right? That as you're dying, you're right? That as you're dying, you're right? That as you're dying, you're going to be reflective. You're going to going to be reflective. You're going to going to be reflective. You're going to be introspective. And they usually be introspective. And they usually be introspective. And they usually become more prevalent towards the last become more prevalent towards the last become more prevalent towards the last kind of week or two of life. And what kind of week or two of life. And what kind of week or two of life. And what was very interesting in the The was very interesting in the The was very interesting in the The frequency of these events increases as frequency of these events increases as frequency of these events increases as people approach death. So, it's all been people approach death. So, it's all been people approach death. So, it's all been an attempt to really humanize the dying an attempt to really humanize the dying an attempt to really humanize the dying process. So, take it from a medical process. So, take it from a medical process. So, take it from a medical model, which looks at organ failure and

model, which looks at organ failure and model, which looks at organ failure and management of disease, and instead, management of disease, and instead, management of disease, and instead, let's look instead what the patients let's look instead what the patients let's look instead what the patients actually experiencing towards the end of actually experiencing towards the end of actually experiencing towards the end of their life. And what's fascinating is their life. And what's fascinating is their life. And what's fascinating is when you measure when you measure when you measure what themes bring them the most comfort, what themes bring them the most comfort, what themes bring them the most comfort, it's seeing the deceased. it's seeing the deceased. it's seeing the deceased. >> So, if I'm passing away, the thing that >> So, if I'm passing away, the thing that >> So, if I'm passing away, the thing that brings me the most comfort is seeing my brings me the most comfort is seeing my brings me the most comfort is seeing my deceased relatives. deceased relatives. deceased relatives. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And I've got a graph here which shows >> And I've got a graph here which shows >> And I've got a graph here which shows the dreams of the dead that were most the dreams of the dead that were most the dreams of the dead that were most comforting. I'll throw that up on the comforting. I'll throw that up on the comforting. I'll throw that up on the screen. screen. screen. >> Yeah. Yes, we measured on a scale what >> Yeah. Yes, we measured on a scale what >> Yeah. Yes, we measured on a scale what brought them the most comfort, and you brought them the most comfort, and you brought them the most comfort, and you can see it goes up between the living can see it goes up between the living can see it goes up between the living and seeing the dead. and seeing the dead. and seeing the dead. Um would it help to see a a video? Um would it help to see a a video? Um would it help to see a a video? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What happened was we videoed patients >> What happened was we videoed patients >> What happened was we videoed patients early because we knew that our audience, early because we knew that our audience, early because we knew that our audience, particularly medical audience, would particularly medical audience, would particularly medical audience, would have a view of what a dying patient was, have a view of what a dying patient was, have a view of what a dying patient was, that they were either compromised or that they were either compromised or that they were either compromised or feeble-minded. And so it became very feeble-minded. And so it became very feeble-minded. And so it became very important to capture them on film. So important to capture them on film. So important to capture them on film. So this is Paul. This is actually 3 weeks this is Paul. This is actually 3 weeks this is Paul. This is actually 3 weeks before his death.

before his death. before his death. And he kind of covers all the bases. So And he kind of covers all the bases. So And he kind of covers all the bases. So very vivid these dreams. very vivid these dreams. very vivid these dreams. Very little is said between the dreamer Very little is said between the dreamer Very little is said between the dreamer and the person in the dream. and the person in the dream. and the person in the dream. What you'll notice in all these videos What you'll notice in all these videos What you'll notice in all these videos that's so striking is the absolute that's so striking is the absolute that's so striking is the absolute absence of fear. absence of fear. absence of fear. So these dreams never deny the fact that So these dreams never deny the fact that So these dreams never deny the fact that they're dying. They they almost they're dying. They they almost they're dying. They they almost transcended. And they really sometimes transcended. And they really sometimes transcended. And they really sometimes have trouble to find language for what have trouble to find language for what have trouble to find language for what they're seeing, but they know how their they're seeing, but they know how their they're seeing, but they know how their loved felt, which is they're kind of put loved felt, which is they're kind of put loved felt, which is they're kind of put back together. back together. back together. >> I've probably had 15 dreams about her >> I've probably had 15 dreams about her >> I've probably had 15 dreams about her maybe, somewhere in there. maybe, somewhere in there. maybe, somewhere in there. She always wear I I dream of color most She always wear I I dream of color most She always wear I I dream of color most like. And she always wears a beautiful like. And she always wears a beautiful like. And she always wears a beautiful light blue. light blue. light blue. It could be a suit, it could be a gown, It could be a suit, it could be a gown, It could be a suit, it could be a gown, it could be a dress. it could be a dress. it could be a dress. It's always light blue. It's always light blue. It's always light blue. And a couple of times she's gave me the And a couple of times she's gave me the And a couple of times she's gave me the little beauty pageant wave. And a couple little beauty pageant wave. And a couple little beauty pageant wave. And a couple times she sort of greet always with a times she sort of greet always with a times she sort of greet always with a smile. Doesn't Only one or twice I've smile. Doesn't Only one or twice I've smile. Doesn't Only one or twice I've ever heard her voice. But uh ever heard her voice. But uh ever heard her voice. But uh she only kind of lets me know that she's she only kind of lets me know that she's she only kind of lets me know that she's fine.

fine. fine. >> So he's in the lead up to his death, >> So he's in the lead up to his death, >> So he's in the lead up to his death, he's having what, 15 dreams about his he's having what, 15 dreams about his he's having what, 15 dreams about his deceased wife. deceased wife. deceased wife. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What you make of that? Like what does >> What you make of that? Like what does >> What you make of that? Like what does that mean? that mean? that mean? >> Yeah. You Honestly, my view of this is >> Yeah. You Honestly, my view of this is >> Yeah. You Honestly, my view of this is changing. I would have told you before changing. I would have told you before changing. I would have told you before when I started doing it that this was um when I started doing it that this was um when I started doing it that this was um a rekindled memory. a rekindled memory. a rekindled memory. >> So you It was just a memory. >> So you It was just a memory. >> So you It was just a memory. >> Yeah. It's like looking at a picture. >> Yeah. It's like looking at a picture. >> Yeah. It's like looking at a picture. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. And uh recalling the imagery. >> Right. And uh recalling the imagery. >> Right. And uh recalling the imagery. There's a couple of features that stand There's a couple of features that stand There's a couple of features that stand out that suggest there's a lot more of out that suggest there's a lot more of out that suggest there's a lot more of than that, that there's almost this than that, that there's almost this than that, that there's almost this continued consciousness. And what one is continued consciousness. And what one is continued consciousness. And what one is the detail that's rekindled is the detail that's rekindled is the detail that's rekindled is remarkable. 95-year-old man, he lost his remarkable. 95-year-old man, he lost his remarkable. 95-year-old man, he lost his mother when he's five, and he talks mother when he's five, and he talks mother when he's five, and he talks about smelling her perfume and hearing about smelling her perfume and hearing about smelling her perfume and hearing her voice. her voice. her voice. The other is that often these The other is that often these The other is that often these interactions, and you're going to see interactions, and you're going to see interactions, and you're going to see this in other videos, there's this in other videos, there's this in other videos, there's communication. communication. communication. So, they're not they're not in still So, they're not they're not in still So, they're not they're not in still form. This again, not like looking at a form. This again, not like looking at a form. This again, not like looking at a picture. picture. picture. >> Do you believe his wife is still truly >> Do you believe his wife is still truly >> Do you believe his wife is still truly accessible? accessible? accessible? Or are you saying that the memory of her Or are you saying that the memory of her Or are you saying that the memory of her is accessible through his dreams? Cuz is accessible through his dreams? Cuz is accessible through his dreams? Cuz they're very different propositions.

they're very different propositions. they're very different propositions. >> I don't know what this means. I don't >> I don't know what this means. I don't >> I don't know what this means. I don't know if this I I wouldn't be so bold as know if this I I wouldn't be so bold as know if this I I wouldn't be so bold as to say this speaks to an afterlife. What to say this speaks to an afterlife. What to say this speaks to an afterlife. What I am more convinced of is that those I am more convinced of is that those I am more convinced of is that those who have loved us are never gone. who have loved us are never gone. who have loved us are never gone. They're accessible to us. They're accessible to us. They're accessible to us. And what is fascinating to me is that And what is fascinating to me is that And what is fascinating to me is that at the end of life, when people are at the end of life, when people are at the end of life, when people are neurologically compromised, they're neurologically compromised, they're neurologically compromised, they're fading, they can't move, the remnant of fading, they can't move, the remnant of fading, they can't move, the remnant of function is still this core sense of function is still this core sense of function is still this core sense of being connected to loved. being connected to loved. being connected to loved. And that remains. It's like we enter the And that remains. It's like we enter the And that remains. It's like we enter the world and leave the world with world and leave the world with world and leave the world with remarkable symmetry. You know, you come remarkable symmetry. You know, you come remarkable symmetry. You know, you come into the world and the infant doesn't into the world and the infant doesn't into the world and the infant doesn't know language, undeveloped brain, but it know language, undeveloped brain, but it know language, undeveloped brain, but it knows its mother's love. It knows it knows its mother's love. It knows it knows its mother's love. It knows it feels connected and secured. And at the feels connected and secured. And at the feels connected and secured. And at the very end of life, it's kind of the same very end of life, it's kind of the same very end of life, it's kind of the same thing. They're diminished, they're less thing. They're diminished, they're less thing. They're diminished, they're less capable, but what they're feeling and capable, but what they're feeling and capable, but what they're feeling and sensing, even without language, is the sensing, even without language, is the sensing, even without language, is the same thing.

same thing. same thing. >> Was that one particular >> Was that one particular >> Was that one particular video you got with a patient that was video you got with a patient that was video you got with a patient that was approaching their death that was most approaching their death that was most approaching their death that was most persuasive to you as it relates to persuasive to you as it relates to persuasive to you as it relates to believing that consciousness believing that consciousness believing that consciousness continues or that our loved ones aren't continues or that our loved ones aren't continues or that our loved ones aren't really ever really ever really ever gone? gone? gone? They are able to be summoned back into They are able to be summoned back into They are able to be summoned back into this world. this world. this world. >> Definitely the ones where people >> Definitely the ones where people >> Definitely the ones where people have injury or harm for having lived and have injury or harm for having lived and have injury or harm for having lived and they've struggled with that, often for they've struggled with that, often for they've struggled with that, often for decades. decades. decades. And no matter how much therapy, talk And no matter how much therapy, talk And no matter how much therapy, talk therapy, medication, they they they've therapy, medication, they they they've therapy, medication, they they they've never found peace, and they find it in never found peace, and they find it in never found peace, and they find it in the end in these experiences. So, an old the end in these experiences. So, an old the end in these experiences. So, an old veteran who suffers with survival death veteran who suffers with survival death veteran who suffers with survival death and PTSD, in the last late and PTSD, in the last late and PTSD, in the last late days of life, days of life, days of life, he he's brought back to those who died he he's brought back to those who died he he's brought back to those who died overseas, and he's comforted. overseas, and he's comforted. overseas, and he's comforted. And I think some of the most remarkable And I think some of the most remarkable And I think some of the most remarkable ones, of course, are the children ones, of course, are the children ones, of course, are the children um who do this so differently. But just um who do this so differently. But just um who do this so differently. But just the fact that there's so much innate the fact that there's so much innate the fact that there's so much innate ability within us to heal these harmed ability within us to heal these harmed ability within us to heal these harmed and broken pieces. And for children who and broken pieces. And for children who and broken pieces. And for children who do this in in ways that are absolutely do this in in ways that are absolutely do this in in ways that are absolutely in inspiring.

in inspiring. in inspiring. They're you know, they're often not They're you know, they're often not They're you know, they're often not dramatic. They're very There's no great dramatic. They're very There's no great dramatic. They're very There's no great epiphany, no great reveal. These are epiphany, no great reveal. These are epiphany, no great reveal. These are moments of just having lived and moments of just having lived and moments of just having lived and mattered. They're sitting around a mattered. They're sitting around a mattered. They're sitting around a kitchen table. If you want, we can show kitchen table. If you want, we can show kitchen table. If you want, we can show Florence, and she's an example. Florence, and she's an example. Florence, and she's an example. She's lost her husband, and she's lost She's lost her husband, and she's lost She's lost her husband, and she's lost her daughter. her daughter. her daughter. And this is 5 days before her passing. And this is 5 days before her passing. And this is 5 days before her passing. >> Tell us about the dreams. >> Tell us about the dreams. >> Tell us about the dreams. >> But the other night, I saw right into a >> But the other night, I saw right into a >> But the other night, I saw right into a sleep. sleep. sleep. They were like sitting at kitchen table, They were like sitting at kitchen table, They were like sitting at kitchen table, laughing. I could see their faces. laughing. I could see their faces. laughing. I could see their faces. I could tell them four photos. I could tell them four photos. I could tell them four photos. We were laughing, we were talking, we We were laughing, we were talking, we We were laughing, we were talking, we were eating. And then they felt like were eating. And then they felt like were eating. And then they felt like they walked 12 years. they walked 12 years. they walked 12 years. And never existed. And never existed. And never existed. >> Because it was so real that it was he >> Because it was so real that it was he >> Because it was so real that it was he was there in the present. was there in the present. was there in the present. >> And 7 years since my daughter was gone. >> And 7 years since my daughter was gone. >> And 7 years since my daughter was gone. It was like we were always together, It was like we were always together, It was like we were always together, never separated. never separated. never separated. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. How does it make you feel How does it make you feel How does it make you feel um about the prospect of dying? How does um about the prospect of dying? How does um about the prospect of dying? How does it change with you?

it change with you? it change with you? >> I'm not >> I'm not >> I'm not >> When you see something like that, people >> When you see something like that, people >> When you see something like that, people might say, you know, might say, you know, might say, you know, because they are aware that they're because they are aware that they're because they are aware that they're going to pass away at some point. going to pass away at some point. going to pass away at some point. They've been given that that diagnosis They've been given that that diagnosis They've been given that that diagnosis that prognosis. that prognosis. that prognosis. Presumably, yeah. Presumably, yeah. Presumably, yeah. The end of their life, their family, The end of their life, their family, The end of their life, their family, these are the things that would be on these are the things that would be on these are the things that would be on their mind. And if they're on their their mind. And if they're on their their mind. And if they're on their minds, they'd be in their dreams. minds, they'd be in their dreams. minds, they'd be in their dreams. So, is it Is it the process of death So, is it Is it the process of death So, is it Is it the process of death that's provoking these kind of dreams or that's provoking these kind of dreams or that's provoking these kind of dreams or visions? Or is it just the case that, visions? Or is it just the case that, visions? Or is it just the case that, you know, you dream about what you think you know, you dream about what you think you know, you dream about what you think about? And obviously, these people are about? And obviously, these people are about? And obviously, these people are thinking about the end of their lives. thinking about the end of their lives. thinking about the end of their lives. >> Yeah, the only rebuttal to that is when >> Yeah, the only rebuttal to that is when >> Yeah, the only rebuttal to that is when you ask them these these sorts of you ask them these these sorts of you ask them these these sorts of questions, questions, questions, the thing that gets them most distressed the thing that gets them most distressed the thing that gets them most distressed is when you refer to them as dreams. is when you refer to them as dreams. is when you refer to them as dreams. Because these are unlike anything Because these are unlike anything Because these are unlike anything they've ever experienced. So, they're they've ever experienced. So, they're they've ever experienced. So, they're not dreams in the sense they're not not dreams in the sense they're not not dreams in the sense they're not metaphorical, they're not fantastical. metaphorical, they're not fantastical. metaphorical, they're not fantastical. They don't require interpretation. I've They don't require interpretation. I've They don't require interpretation. I've never had a patient say, "Hey, what do never had a patient say, "Hey, what do never had a patient say, "Hey, what do you think this means?" you think this means?" you think this means?" They're given the sense of knowing. And They're given the sense of knowing. And They're given the sense of knowing. And they'll often say, "I don't normally they'll often say, "I don't normally they'll often say, "I don't normally dream." Or "I don't recall my dream." Or dream." Or "I don't recall my dream." Or dream." Or "I don't recall my dream." Or "No, this was virtual. This was a "No, this was virtual. This was a "No, this was virtual. This was a happening."

happening." happening." So, they have no doubt. When we ask them So, they have no doubt. When we ask them So, they have no doubt. When we ask them to scale it 0 to 10 on the degree of to scale it 0 to 10 on the degree of to scale it 0 to 10 on the degree of realism, it's always a 10. realism, it's always a 10. realism, it's always a 10. So, it feels like this actually So, it feels like this actually So, it feels like this actually happened. And those of them who are happened. And those of them who are happened. And those of them who are having these experiences in the wake having these experiences in the wake having these experiences in the wake state, you can watch them. They're state, you can watch them. They're state, you can watch them. They're looking right through. They're looking looking right through. They're looking looking right through. They're looking at the room. They're petting the dog at the room. They're petting the dog at the room. They're petting the dog that isn't there. that isn't there. that isn't there. >> Oh, so some of them have these visions >> Oh, so some of them have these visions >> Oh, so some of them have these visions >> 50% are occurring when they're awake. >> 50% are occurring when they're awake. >> 50% are occurring when they're awake. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Even if it's quite some time before they >> Even if it's quite some time before they >> Even if it's quite some time before they pass away? pass away? pass away? >> No, it's usually measurable within >> No, it's usually measurable within >> No, it's usually measurable within weeks. A couple weeks. And it picks up weeks. A couple weeks. And it picks up weeks. A couple weeks. And it picks up as as you get closer to death. as as you get closer to death. as as you get closer to death. >> And when it gets closer to death, how do >> And when it gets closer to death, how do >> And when it gets closer to death, how do these visions change or evolve? these visions change or evolve? these visions change or evolve? >> Become more immersive. >> Become more immersive. >> Become more immersive. So, again, dying is progressive sleep. So, again, dying is progressive sleep. So, again, dying is progressive sleep. So, they're living more in this other So, they're living more in this other So, they're living more in this other state where they're deeper and deeper state where they're deeper and deeper state where they're deeper and deeper sleep. So, they spend more time there. sleep. So, they spend more time there. sleep. So, they spend more time there. And they'll often wake up, it's And they'll often wake up, it's And they'll often wake up, it's interesting, and wish they were going interesting, and wish they were going interesting, and wish they were going back into that other state. Often times, back into that other state. Often times, back into that other state. Often times, they're just warmed by reunion of what they're just warmed by reunion of what they're just warmed by reunion of what they were experiencing.

they were experiencing. they were experiencing. And time and distance go away. And time and distance go away. And time and distance go away. So, they're decades have moved and they So, they're decades have moved and they So, they're decades have moved and they were calling very vivid memories of a were calling very vivid memories of a were calling very vivid memories of a dog they lost in childhood, for example. dog they lost in childhood, for example. dog they lost in childhood, for example. >> So, do you think this is a biological, >> So, do you think this is a biological, >> So, do you think this is a biological, physiological thing in that brain, a physiological thing in that brain, a physiological thing in that brain, a bunch of chemicals that are bunch of chemicals that are bunch of chemicals that are slushing around, or do you think it is slushing around, or do you think it is slushing around, or do you think it is spiritual? spiritual? spiritual? >> I'm also a PhD in neurobiologist been >> I'm also a PhD in neurobiologist been >> I'm also a PhD in neurobiologist been 5, 6 years studying brain. So, I I I 5, 6 years studying brain. So, I I I 5, 6 years studying brain. So, I I I I'm drawn to that. No one knows. And I I'm drawn to that. No one knows. And I I'm drawn to that. No one knows. And I I'm good with that. I I think you could I'm good with that. I I think you could I'm good with that. I I think you could you point parts of the brain here you point parts of the brain here you point parts of the brain here and say, you know, love lives in the and say, you know, love lives in the and say, you know, love lives in the certain areas, certain certain areas, certain certain areas, certain neurotransmitters, neurotransmitters, neurotransmitters, you know, are correlated with happiness. you know, are correlated with happiness. you know, are correlated with happiness. You can take all the pieces and you You can take all the pieces and you You can take all the pieces and you can't make the whole. can't make the whole. can't make the whole. I can't show you where love is. I can't show you where love is. I can't show you where love is. I can't recreate love in a dish. And I I can't recreate love in a dish. And I I can't recreate love in a dish. And I can't create this. can't create this. can't create this. I see it really goes beyond I see it really goes beyond I see it really goes beyond brain function into something else.

brain function into something else. brain function into something else. >> So, you think it is spiritual then? >> So, you think it is spiritual then? >> So, you think it is spiritual then? >> I do, very much. Yeah. >> I do, very much. Yeah. >> I do, very much. Yeah. >> Do you believe there is a soul? >> Do you believe there is a soul? >> Do you believe there is a soul? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And so, you would >> And so, you would >> And so, you would posit, I guess, that lives beyond the posit, I guess, that lives beyond the posit, I guess, that lives beyond the physiology of the human body and brain. physiology of the human body and brain. physiology of the human body and brain. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Half of Americans say a dead relative >> Half of Americans say a dead relative >> Half of Americans say a dead relative has visited them. has visited them. has visited them. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And the answer here that has that 53% of >> And the answer here that has that 53% of >> And the answer here that has that 53% of votes is votes is votes is have you ever felt a dead family member have you ever felt a dead family member have you ever felt a dead family member visit you in a dream or in any other visit you in a dream or in any other visit you in a dream or in any other form? 53% of people say they have. form? 53% of people say they have. form? 53% of people say they have. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> 34% say in the past year they felt the >> 34% say in the past year they felt the >> 34% say in the past year they felt the presence of a dead family member. presence of a dead family member. presence of a dead family member. And 28% say in the past year they've And 28% say in the past year they've And 28% say in the past year they've told dead family members about events in told dead family members about events in told dead family members about events in their life. their life. their life. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, we remain connected. >> Yeah, we remain connected. >> Yeah, we remain connected. >> 15% say in the past year they've had a >> 15% say in the past year they've had a >> 15% say in the past year they've had a dead family member communicate with dead family member communicate with dead family member communicate with them. them. them. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> All the data has always suggested that >> All the data has always suggested that >> All the data has always suggested that at least in this country there's a at least in this country there's a at least in this country there's a higher degree of spiritual orientation higher degree of spiritual orientation higher degree of spiritual orientation than you would expect. But that's been than you would expect. But that's been than you would expect. But that's been always been the case. always been the case. always been the case. >> When people are in their last days, do >> When people are in their last days, do >> When people are in their last days, do they become more religious and more they become more religious and more they become more religious and more spiritual?

spiritual? spiritual? >> Yes. We know it because of of what they >> Yes. We know it because of of what they >> Yes. We know it because of of what they focus on. They tend to think about these focus on. They tend to think about these focus on. They tend to think about these big things and again, they tend to be big things and again, they tend to be big things and again, they tend to be about relationships. They ask these about relationships. They ask these about relationships. They ask these better questions. We've looked at this better questions. We've looked at this better questions. We've looked at this question of religion and we've have not question of religion and we've have not question of religion and we've have not found that being having a religious found that being having a religious found that being having a religious belief changes how you experience these belief changes how you experience these belief changes how you experience these end of life events. It just doesn't seem end of life events. It just doesn't seem end of life events. It just doesn't seem to matter. to matter. to matter. >> And most dying patients report end of >> And most dying patients report end of >> And most dying patients report end of life dreams and visions. The stats here life dreams and visions. The stats here life dreams and visions. The stats here show that 80% of health care show that 80% of health care show that 80% of health care professionals have witnessed or told professionals have witnessed or told professionals have witnessed or told been told of one. been told of one. been told of one. This I didn't realize it was so many This I didn't realize it was so many This I didn't realize it was so many people that are having these end of life people that are having these end of life people that are having these end of life dreams and visions. I didn't realize it dreams and visions. I didn't realize it dreams and visions. I didn't realize it was 80%. was 80%. was 80%. And and you know, again, we people might And and you know, again, we people might And and you know, again, we people might think this is because of delirium, think this is because of delirium, think this is because of delirium, because of their illness. because of their illness. because of their illness. >> No, it's it's a good question and that's >> No, it's it's a good question and that's >> No, it's it's a good question and that's what our studies did that was smart is what our studies did that was smart is what our studies did that was smart is we sorted out the patients who were we sorted out the patients who were we sorted out the patients who were delirious. delirious. delirious. So, we screened them every day before So, we screened them every day before So, we screened them every day before they did a questionnaire. Again, these they did a questionnaire. Again, these they did a questionnaire. Again, these are approved by a university, so you are approved by a university, so you are approved by a university, so you have to be witnessed, you have to have have to be witnessed, you have to have have to be witnessed, you have to have consent, you have to be cognitively consent, you have to be cognitively consent, you have to be cognitively intact. So, before they did our intact. So, before they did our intact. So, before they did our questionnaire every day, they had to get questionnaire every day, they had to get questionnaire every day, they had to get a screen for delirium.

a screen for delirium. a screen for delirium. And these events don't resemble And these events don't resemble And these events don't resemble delirium. Delirium is very disorganized delirium. Delirium is very disorganized delirium. Delirium is very disorganized and the biggest difference is most and the biggest difference is most and the biggest difference is most people are left frightened or distressed people are left frightened or distressed people are left frightened or distressed by delirium. These events are recalled by delirium. These events are recalled by delirium. These events are recalled with acuity, they're based on real with acuity, they're based on real with acuity, they're based on real happenings, and they're left with a happenings, and they're left with a happenings, and they're left with a feeling of comfort, not distress or feeling of comfort, not distress or feeling of comfort, not distress or fear. fear. fear. >> Acuity. >> Acuity. >> Acuity. >> Acuity, there's sharpness. >> Acuity, there's sharpness. >> Acuity, there's sharpness. >> What are the other sort of fundamental >> What are the other sort of fundamental >> What are the other sort of fundamental misunderstandings people have about misunderstandings people have about misunderstandings people have about death that you've spent your career death that you've spent your career death that you've spent your career trying to confront and reverse? trying to confront and reverse? trying to confront and reverse? >> Oh, there are many. Dying is a process, >> Oh, there are many. Dying is a process, >> Oh, there are many. Dying is a process, death is a moment. It changes over time. death is a moment. It changes over time. death is a moment. It changes over time. The big myths are that pain is expected The big myths are that pain is expected The big myths are that pain is expected or anticipated and that's actually not or anticipated and that's actually not or anticipated and that's actually not true. Pain isn't, and the pain that is true. Pain isn't, and the pain that is true. Pain isn't, and the pain that is there can be resolved. The other there can be resolved. The other there can be resolved. The other misconceptions around eating and misconceptions around eating and misconceptions around eating and drinking, people stop eating and drinking, people stop eating and drinking, people stop eating and drinking. It doesn't hurt. They're not drinking. It doesn't hurt. They're not drinking. It doesn't hurt. They're not eating and drinking because they're eating and drinking because they're eating and drinking because they're they're dying. Something happens in they're dying. Something happens in they're dying. Something happens in nature that we don't die in want. So, it nature that we don't die in want. So, it nature that we don't die in want. So, it just kind of dwindles. And dying is just kind of dwindles. And dying is just kind of dwindles. And dying is really like um a dimming of the shades.

really like um a dimming of the shades. really like um a dimming of the shades. It's gradual. You start to lose It's gradual. You start to lose It's gradual. You start to lose function, do less. If you have the flu, function, do less. If you have the flu, function, do less. If you have the flu, you know to go to bed. It just doesn't you know to go to bed. It just doesn't you know to go to bed. It just doesn't pay to do. Sleep is preferred, and most pay to do. Sleep is preferred, and most pay to do. Sleep is preferred, and most people die in sleep. The The key people die in sleep. The The key people die in sleep. The The key is to die, you have to be able to sleep is to die, you have to be able to sleep is to die, you have to be able to sleep well. But to sleep well, you have to be well. But to sleep well, you have to be well. But to sleep well, you have to be comfortable. comfortable. comfortable. And what people tend to think is to be And what people tend to think is to be And what people tend to think is to be comfortable and mean you need to be comfortable and mean you need to be comfortable and mean you need to be physically comfortable, but you also physically comfortable, but you also physically comfortable, but you also need to be psychologically at peace, need to be psychologically at peace, need to be psychologically at peace, existentially at peace. existentially at peace. existentially at peace. So, the holy grail for us, the vital So, the holy grail for us, the vital So, the holy grail for us, the vital sign that matters for us is comfortable sign that matters for us is comfortable sign that matters for us is comfortable sleep because you can't sleep if you're sleep because you can't sleep if you're sleep because you can't sleep if you're in discomfort, and you can't die if you in discomfort, and you can't die if you in discomfort, and you can't die if you can't sleep. can't sleep. can't sleep. >> There's that famous study by Bronnie >> There's that famous study by Bronnie >> There's that famous study by Bronnie Ware, who I think was a palliative nurse Ware, who I think was a palliative nurse Ware, who I think was a palliative nurse in Australia, who interviewed people on in Australia, who interviewed people on in Australia, who interviewed people on their last days and asked them about their last days and asked them about their last days and asked them about their regrets. their regrets. their regrets. >> Hm. >> Hm. >> Hm. >> Have you ever done any research like >> Have you ever done any research like >> Have you ever done any research like that to understand that to understand that to understand >> and I really have trouble with the >> and I really have trouble with the >> and I really have trouble with the study. study. study. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> Yeah. First of all, it wasn't empirical, >> Yeah. First of all, it wasn't empirical, >> Yeah. First of all, it wasn't empirical, right? It was It was conver- based off right? It was It was conver- based off right? It was It was conver- based off of conversations. of conversations. of conversations. And And And that's not my experience. I don't see that's not my experience. I don't see that's not my experience. I don't see people bringing up regret towards the people bringing up regret towards the people bringing up regret towards the end of their life. Now, if you ask end of their life. Now, if you ask end of their life. Now, if you ask people people people what if they had regrets, I'm sure they what if they had regrets, I'm sure they what if they had regrets, I'm sure they would give you an answer.

would give you an answer. would give you an answer. It's like if I asked you, "What's your It's like if I asked you, "What's your It's like if I asked you, "What's your favorite color?" You have an answer, but favorite color?" You have an answer, but favorite color?" You have an answer, but you don't go around thinking, "Oh, this you don't go around thinking, "Oh, this you don't go around thinking, "Oh, this is my favorite color." is my favorite color." is my favorite color." >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> So, regrets, and this shows in our >> So, regrets, and this shows in our >> So, regrets, and this shows in our quantifiable study, don't come to the quantifiable study, don't come to the quantifiable study, don't come to the surface, actually. surface, actually. surface, actually. A lot of that gets let go of. I can A lot of that gets let go of. I can A lot of that gets let go of. I can honestly say, I've done this for nearly honestly say, I've done this for nearly honestly say, I've done this for nearly 30 years, and that's It's what I hear. 30 years, and that's It's what I hear. 30 years, and that's It's what I hear. >> So, let's um take a look at this cuz I >> So, let's um take a look at this cuz I >> So, let's um take a look at this cuz I think this is quite important. And I, think this is quite important. And I, think this is quite important. And I, funnily enough, had this conversation funnily enough, had this conversation funnily enough, had this conversation with my fiance yesterday when we were with my fiance yesterday when we were with my fiance yesterday when we were talking about what actually matters in talking about what actually matters in talking about what actually matters in life. So, here we have 11 things that life. So, here we have 11 things that life. So, here we have 11 things that medical students say they think will medical students say they think will medical students say they think will matter to a dying patient at the end of matter to a dying patient at the end of matter to a dying patient at the end of their life. their life. their life. And then, you're going to tell me what And then, you're going to tell me what And then, you're going to tell me what actually mattered when you did an actually mattered when you did an actually mattered when you did an empirical peer-reviewed study and asking empirical peer-reviewed study and asking empirical peer-reviewed study and asking patients with days to live what actually patients with days to live what actually patients with days to live what actually mattered to them. mattered to them. mattered to them. >> Well, the first one the hospice patient >> Well, the first one the hospice patient >> Well, the first one the hospice patient cares about cares about cares about is not being a burden. is not being a burden. is not being a burden. They become selfless.

They become selfless. They become selfless. They don't want to tax their family. They don't want to tax their family. They don't want to tax their family. They don't want their illness to They don't want their illness to They don't want their illness to compromise their life. They want to compromise their life. They want to compromise their life. They want to spend time with them. spend time with them. spend time with them. But they don't want to to to interfere But they don't want to to to interfere But they don't want to to to interfere with their living. You would think as with their living. You would think as with their living. You would think as people are close nearing the end of people are close nearing the end of people are close nearing the end of their life, they would become more and their life, they would become more and their life, they would become more and more self-focused and they become more self-focused and they become more self-focused and they become other-focused. other-focused. other-focused. And what's really interesting is And what's really interesting is And what's really interesting is actually this aligns well with that actually this aligns well with that actually this aligns well with that science of happiness work, right? Which science of happiness work, right? Which science of happiness work, right? Which says that the happier people derive says that the happier people derive says that the happier people derive meaning from doing for others rather meaning from doing for others rather meaning from doing for others rather than doing for self. than doing for self. than doing for self. These better features kind of come to These better features kind of come to These better features kind of come to life at the end. life at the end. life at the end. >> If I've got a relative who's passing >> If I've got a relative who's passing >> If I've got a relative who's passing away, if this is the thing they care away, if this is the thing they care away, if this is the thing they care about most, not being a burden, is there about most, not being a burden, is there about most, not being a burden, is there something I can do as the loved one or something I can do as the loved one or something I can do as the loved one or the relative to ease this concern for the relative to ease this concern for the relative to ease this concern for them? them? them? >> I think it's >> I think it's >> I think it's aligning your wishes with their hope, aligning your wishes with their hope, aligning your wishes with their hope, which is your wish is you actually want which is your wish is you actually want which is your wish is you actually want to be a presence. to be a presence. to be a presence. >> And you And you're letting them know >> And you And you're letting them know >> And you And you're letting them know that you're not a burden. that you're not a burden. that you're not a burden. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> They're not a burden. >> They're not a burden. >> They're not a burden. >> Okay. Number two. >> Okay. Number two. >> Okay. Number two. They want time. They want time. They want time. >> Okay, so they want to be around their >> Okay, so they want to be around their >> Okay, so they want to be around their friends and family. That's what they friends and family. That's what they friends and family. That's what they care about second.

care about second. care about second. >> fundamental here is this relationships, >> fundamental here is this relationships, >> fundamental here is this relationships, right? That's what it's about. right? That's what it's about. right? That's what it's about. >> And the medical students thought it >> And the medical students thought it >> And the medical students thought it would be would be would be >> feeling that life was meaningful. >> feeling that life was meaningful. >> feeling that life was meaningful. >> Again, this >> Again, this >> Again, this >> I think this is wonderful. This is one >> I think this is wonderful. This is one >> I think this is wonderful. This is one that fascinates me the most. So, you're that fascinates me the most. So, you're that fascinates me the most. So, you're in your 20s in your 20s in your 20s and you're on this journey of and you're on this journey of and you're on this journey of development and and development and and development and and that you've had this impact of some that you've had this impact of some that you've had this impact of some sort. sort. sort. That door shut. That door shut. That door shut. And they're not living in the rearview And they're not living in the rearview And they're not living in the rearview mirror and they're not wondering whether mirror and they're not wondering whether mirror and they're not wondering whether they had have meaning or not. they had have meaning or not. they had have meaning or not. >> This is very relevant cuz me and my >> This is very relevant cuz me and my >> This is very relevant cuz me and my fiance were in the car the other day and fiance were in the car the other day and fiance were in the car the other day and we was yesterday and we were talking we was yesterday and we were talking we was yesterday and we were talking about this and she turned to me and said about this and she turned to me and said about this and she turned to me and said like what's your why? like what's your why? like what's your why? And having sat here on this podcast with And having sat here on this podcast with And having sat here on this podcast with a guest a couple of weeks ago who asked a guest a couple of weeks ago who asked a guest a couple of weeks ago who asked me to close my eyes and imagined it was me to close my eyes and imagined it was me to close my eyes and imagined it was the last day of my life. The only thing the last day of my life. The only thing the last day of my life. The only thing that mattered in that moment was who was that mattered in that moment was who was that mattered in that moment was who was around my bed and what they thought of around my bed and what they thought of around my bed and what they thought of me and if were they safe and secure. me and if were they safe and secure. me and if were they safe and secure. And it didn't dawn on me in that moment And it didn't dawn on me in that moment And it didn't dawn on me in that moment where I visualized being on my deathbed, where I visualized being on my deathbed, where I visualized being on my deathbed, my legacy or the impact I'd had or the my legacy or the impact I'd had or the my legacy or the impact I'd had or the achievements I'd accomplished. It's made achievements I'd accomplished. It's made achievements I'd accomplished. It's made me really reconsider what my why is.

me really reconsider what my why is. me really reconsider what my why is. Cuz really if in the last moments of my Cuz really if in the last moments of my Cuz really if in the last moments of my life what I'm concerned about is who life what I'm concerned about is who life what I'm concerned about is who stood there stood there stood there and what they think of me. and what they think of me. and what they think of me. And when I say what they think of me, And when I say what they think of me, And when I say what they think of me, it's like do my kids think dad was a it's like do my kids think dad was a it's like do my kids think dad was a good man and did he leave us with good man and did he leave us with good man and did he leave us with lessons and principles that we so we can lessons and principles that we so we can lessons and principles that we so we can live a good life, too. live a good life, too. live a good life, too. That seems to be most important. So, it That seems to be most important. So, it That seems to be most important. So, it was just interesting cuz we go through was just interesting cuz we go through was just interesting cuz we go through life and we read Instagram and LinkedIn life and we read Instagram and LinkedIn life and we read Instagram and LinkedIn and it tells us like what's your why, and it tells us like what's your why, and it tells us like what's your why, what's your legacy, what impact you want what's your legacy, what impact you want what's your legacy, what impact you want to have on the world, what's your to have on the world, what's your to have on the world, what's your purpose, what's your passion and these purpose, what's your passion and these purpose, what's your passion and these are all things that are very are all things that are very are all things that are very self-focused. But actually it appears to self-focused. But actually it appears to self-focused. But actually it appears to me as you've described that actually in me as you've described that actually in me as you've described that actually in those moments it's about others. those moments it's about others. those moments it's about others. >> Yeah, I mean and there's good work on >> Yeah, I mean and there's good work on >> Yeah, I mean and there's good work on this, right? Is is the brain's ability this, right? Is is the brain's ability this, right? Is is the brain's ability to predict what makes us happy is to predict what makes us happy is to predict what makes us happy is horribly wrong. horribly wrong. horribly wrong. What we predict makes us happy is never What we predict makes us happy is never What we predict makes us happy is never sustainable. sustainable. sustainable. Right? And then what's important is to Right? And then what's important is to Right? And then what's important is to kind of de-want what matters. kind of de-want what matters. kind of de-want what matters. >> De-want what matters? >> De-want what matters? >> De-want what matters? >> Yeah, because >> Yeah, because >> Yeah, because well we're on this treadmill of things well we're on this treadmill of things well we're on this treadmill of things that we think are going to make us that we think are going to make us that we think are going to make us happy. happy. happy. >> Job promotion. >> Job promotion. >> Job promotion. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Come on. >> Come on. >> Come on. >> And they're not sustainable things and >> And they're not sustainable things and >> And they're not sustainable things and that's proven over and over and over and that's proven over and over and over and that's proven over and over and over and over again. Belonging, connection, over again. Belonging, connection, over again. Belonging, connection, meaning, those those are the things that meaning, those those are the things that meaning, those those are the things that I mean, we're fundamentally meant to I mean, we're fundamentally meant to I mean, we're fundamentally meant to belong to one another. If you think of belong to one another. If you think of belong to one another. If you think of the best version of yourself, the best version of yourself, the best version of yourself, it was never achieving something. It was it was never achieving something. It was it was never achieving something. It was being a son, it was being a brother, it being a son, it was being a brother, it being a son, it was being a brother, it was being a friend, it was being a was being a friend, it was being a was being a friend, it was being a fiance or boyfriend, whatever. It's fiance or boyfriend, whatever. It's fiance or boyfriend, whatever. It's those things that make us important. And those things that make us important. And those things that make us important. And ultimately, what you find out of this

ultimately, what you find out of this ultimately, what you find out of this research is the enormous value of research is the enormous value of research is the enormous value of interdependency. interdependency. interdependency. And that's the whole deal, whether it's And that's the whole deal, whether it's And that's the whole deal, whether it's in the physical world, the natural in the physical world, the natural in the physical world, the natural world, the ecosystems, but as humans, world, the ecosystems, but as humans, world, the ecosystems, but as humans, we're we're we're we're we're we're meant to be inter- interdependent, and meant to be inter- interdependent, and meant to be inter- interdependent, and that's most clear in moments of that's most clear in moments of that's most clear in moments of vulnerability. vulnerability. vulnerability. So, you pose yourself the question, kind So, you pose yourself the question, kind So, you pose yourself the question, kind of last day stuff, you're immediately of last day stuff, you're immediately of last day stuff, you're immediately vulnerable. vulnerable. vulnerable. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right? And what you did is you pulled in >> Right? And what you did is you pulled in >> Right? And what you did is you pulled in all these other people that matter to all these other people that matter to all these other people that matter to you. Yeah. Because we're defined you. Yeah. Because we're defined you. Yeah. Because we're defined only by our relationships. That's the only by our relationships. That's the only by our relationships. That's the only surviving thing, not by these other only surviving thing, not by these other only surviving thing, not by these other things that seem, things that seem, things that seem, in a transient sense, important. And in a transient sense, important. And in a transient sense, important. And that bears this out. And what's that bears this out. And what's that bears this out. And what's beautiful is their concern shifts from beautiful is their concern shifts from beautiful is their concern shifts from self, and I mean, hope changes in that self, and I mean, hope changes in that self, and I mean, hope changes in that way, right? It's hope for cure, then way, right? It's hope for cure, then way, right? It's hope for cure, then just hope for others. It's just this just hope for others. It's just this just hope for others. It's just this really wonderful story about who we are. really wonderful story about who we are. really wonderful story about who we are. >> It's interesting cuz the things you'll >> It's interesting cuz the things you'll >> It's interesting cuz the things you'll say, a lot lot of people will sort of say, a lot lot of people will sort of say, a lot lot of people will sort of intellectually understand and believe intellectually understand and believe intellectually understand and believe that it's about the relationships in that it's about the relationships in that it's about the relationships in these last moments, but therefore, it's these last moments, but therefore, it's these last moments, but therefore, it's about relationships through our life.

about relationships through our life. about relationships through our life. But then when you look at how we But then when you look at how we But then when you look at how we allocate our time on a weekly monthly allocate our time on a weekly monthly allocate our time on a weekly monthly basis, basis, basis, >> Proportionate. >> Proportionate. >> Proportionate. >> There's a disconnect. >> There's a disconnect. >> There's a disconnect. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. >> Because we're we're allocating our time >> Because we're we're allocating our time >> Because we're we're allocating our time towards accomplishment or achievement or towards accomplishment or achievement or towards accomplishment or achievement or money or promotions or cars, whatever, money or promotions or cars, whatever, money or promotions or cars, whatever, >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> but then in the final hour, >> but then in the final hour, >> but then in the final hour, it's all about something else. And if I it's all about something else. And if I it's all about something else. And if I even reviewed the allocation of my time even reviewed the allocation of my time even reviewed the allocation of my time this week and day, I'd be like, wow. this week and day, I'd be like, wow. this week and day, I'd be like, wow. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, dying is the death is this Well, I mean, dying is the death is this Well, I mean, dying is the death is this unbelievably truthful place. unbelievably truthful place. unbelievably truthful place. Right? Pretense goes away. All the Right? Pretense goes away. All the Right? Pretense goes away. All the superficiality goes away. You're You're superficiality goes away. You're You're superficiality goes away. You're You're stripped to the bare bare bones of who stripped to the bare bare bones of who stripped to the bare bare bones of who you are. And what you end up finding is you are. And what you end up finding is you are. And what you end up finding is that we're more alike than unlike, and that we're more alike than unlike, and that we're more alike than unlike, and there's a universality to being human, there's a universality to being human, there's a universality to being human, >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> and it involves being connected to one >> and it involves being connected to one >> and it involves being connected to one another. You know, our struggle is to another. You know, our struggle is to another. You know, our struggle is to remain humane, and we go through this remain humane, and we go through this remain humane, and we go through this together, not alone. And that's Again, together, not alone. And that's Again, together, not alone. And that's Again, there's a symmetry. You see at the there's a symmetry. You see at the there's a symmetry. You see at the beginning of life, and you see it at the beginning of life, and you see it at the beginning of life, and you see it at the end of life. end of life. end of life. Politics falls away.

Politics falls away. Politics falls away. >> I sure as hell hope so. And this is >> I sure as hell hope so. And this is >> I sure as hell hope so. And this is interesting cuz so many people spend interesting cuz so many people spend interesting cuz so many people spend their lives getting agitated You see The their lives getting agitated You see The their lives getting agitated You see The reason I say that is cuz you said we're reason I say that is cuz you said we're reason I say that is cuz you said we're more like than we believe. more like than we believe. more like than we believe. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Oh, absolutely. >> And so, when you're bare bones, you're >> And so, when you're bare bones, you're >> And so, when you're bare bones, you're not really thinking about the left, the not really thinking about the left, the not really thinking about the left, the right, this politics, this political right, this politics, this political right, this politics, this political issue. issue. issue. >> What you end up >> What you end up >> What you end up um when people are are most vulnerable, um when people are are most vulnerable, um when people are are most vulnerable, you you you see beauty. You see love. you you you see beauty. You see love. you you you see beauty. You see love. You see tenderness. You see You see tenderness. You see You see tenderness. You see vulnerability. There are some awful vulnerability. There are some awful vulnerability. There are some awful humans that have lived a bad life, but humans that have lived a bad life, but humans that have lived a bad life, but in the end, when you see them in a more in the end, when you see them in a more in the end, when you see them in a more vulnerable state, I I I I think you see vulnerable state, I I I I think you see vulnerable state, I I I I think you see their better nature. You see tenderness. their better nature. You see tenderness. their better nature. You see tenderness. You see expressions of love. There's a You see expressions of love. There's a You see expressions of love. There's a lot of pretense that people have to work lot of pretense that people have to work lot of pretense that people have to work through, personas that they present, and through, personas that they present, and through, personas that they present, and illness kind of strips you of that. It's illness kind of strips you of that. It's illness kind of strips you of that. It's this great leveling effect to be sick. this great leveling effect to be sick. this great leveling effect to be sick. That what matters to you 2 weeks earlier That what matters to you 2 weeks earlier That what matters to you 2 weeks earlier doesn't matter to you now. doesn't matter to you now. doesn't matter to you now. >> Okay, so medical students thought the >> Okay, so medical students thought the >> Okay, so medical students thought the third would be pain symptom management, third would be pain symptom management, third would be pain symptom management, and according to your hospice patients, and according to your hospice patients, and according to your hospice patients, >> Yep.

>> Yep. >> Yep. >> they agree. >> they agree. >> they agree. >> one right. >> one right. >> one right. >> And what does that mean? That's just >> And what does that mean? That's just >> And what does that mean? That's just their concern is not being in pain. their concern is not being in pain. their concern is not being in pain. >> unfortunately, there's not a lot of >> unfortunately, there's not a lot of >> unfortunately, there's not a lot of conversation about what to expect. We conversation about what to expect. We conversation about what to expect. We just completed a study on this. If you just completed a study on this. If you just completed a study on this. If you were told you had a terminal disease, I were told you had a terminal disease, I were told you had a terminal disease, I guarantee one of your first overwhelming guarantee one of your first overwhelming guarantee one of your first overwhelming thoughts is a suffering. thoughts is a suffering. thoughts is a suffering. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And unfortunately, >> And unfortunately, >> And unfortunately, it's damning how little conversations it's damning how little conversations it's damning how little conversations there are to address that issue in terms there are to address that issue in terms there are to address that issue in terms of what to expect, when to expect it, of what to expect, when to expect it, of what to expect, when to expect it, what you're going to feel, and reassure what you're going to feel, and reassure what you're going to feel, and reassure people. And these honest conversations people. And these honest conversations people. And these honest conversations actually don't take away hope, they actually don't take away hope, they actually don't take away hope, they restore agency. restore agency. restore agency. >> So, what is the misunderstanding? >> So, what is the misunderstanding? >> So, what is the misunderstanding? >> Oh my gosh, that it's far worse than >> Oh my gosh, that it's far worse than >> Oh my gosh, that it's far worse than people think, that there isn't a pain, people think, that there isn't a pain, people think, that there isn't a pain, rarely a pain we can't manage. rarely a pain we can't manage. rarely a pain we can't manage. >> It's less painful than people think. >> It's less painful than people think. >> It's less painful than people think. >> by a mile. Yeah. >> by a mile. Yeah. >> by a mile. Yeah. That's probably the the biggest myth. That's probably the the biggest myth. That's probably the the biggest myth. >> About death and dying? >> About death and dying? >> About death and dying? >> 100%. And honestly, it's compounded by >> 100%. And honestly, it's compounded by >> 100%. And honestly, it's compounded by the fact that doctors don't have these the fact that doctors don't have these the fact that doctors don't have these discussions. discussions. discussions. >> Okay. So, number four in terms of what >> Okay. So, number four in terms of what >> Okay. So, number four in terms of what hospice patients say matters most to hospice patients say matters most to hospice patients say matters most to them?

them? them? >> Peace with God. >> Peace with God. >> Peace with God. >> Being at peace with God. Hmm. And >> Being at peace with God. Hmm. And >> Being at peace with God. Hmm. And presumably just the religious ones, presumably just the religious ones, presumably just the religious ones, right? right? right? >> I know, it's peace with a belief >> I know, it's peace with a belief >> I know, it's peace with a belief of something larger. I've asked patients of something larger. I've asked patients of something larger. I've asked patients this, and they'll say what I would say this, and they'll say what I would say this, and they'll say what I would say is that I don't know. It's an is that I don't know. It's an is that I don't know. It's an existential feeling that doesn't existential feeling that doesn't existential feeling that doesn't necessarily have to be attributed to a necessarily have to be attributed to a necessarily have to be attributed to a belief or a god. belief or a god. belief or a god. >> Now, is it because they're concerned >> Now, is it because they're concerned >> Now, is it because they're concerned they're going to go to hell or that they're going to go to hell or that they're going to go to hell or that they're going to go to they don't know? they're going to go to they don't know? they're going to go to they don't know? >> don't hear that. I'm sure there was a >> don't hear that. I'm sure there was a >> don't hear that. I'm sure there was a time when judgment the role judgment time when judgment the role judgment time when judgment the role judgment played in, but just to be at peace. played in, but just to be at peace. played in, but just to be at peace. >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> existentially. >> existentially. >> existentially. >> And is there a way to become at peace >> And is there a way to become at peace >> And is there a way to become at peace that that patients will ask for? that that patients will ask for? that that patients will ask for? >> I don't hear, but I imagine it's to ask >> I don't hear, but I imagine it's to ask >> I don't hear, but I imagine it's to ask for forgiveness in part. for forgiveness in part. for forgiveness in part. >> And the medical students you interviewed >> And the medical students you interviewed >> And the medical students you interviewed thought number four would be being thought number four would be being thought number four would be being mentally aware. mentally aware. mentally aware. >> Yes, and that does come up, right? So, >> Yes, and that does come up, right? So, >> Yes, and that does come up, right? So, here we are. here we are. here we are. >> That's number five. >> That's number five. >> That's number five. >> Yes. In what hospice Okay. >> Yes. In what hospice Okay. >> Yes. In what hospice Okay. >> And then the next is is dying at home. >> And then the next is is dying at home. >> And then the next is is dying at home. And this is tragic because 80% of And this is tragic because 80% of And this is tragic because 80% of Americans want to die at home, and about Americans want to die at home, and about Americans want to die at home, and about 30% do.

30% do. 30% do. >> Why is that? >> Why is that? >> Why is that? >> It's really reflective of of a mostly >> It's really reflective of of a mostly >> It's really reflective of of a mostly our our our medicalization of dying. As a country we medicalization of dying. As a country we medicalization of dying. As a country we under invest in care for at home so that under invest in care for at home so that under invest in care for at home so that people end up having to go into the people end up having to go into the people end up having to go into the hospital and the death that they fear is hospital and the death that they fear is hospital and the death that they fear is the one they get. The more tertiary or the one they get. The more tertiary or the one they get. The more tertiary or advanced a hospital is the more advanced a hospital is the more advanced a hospital is the more aggressive treatment there is. It's part aggressive treatment there is. It's part aggressive treatment there is. It's part of the death defying approach of of the death defying approach of of the death defying approach of medicine. There's always something you medicine. There's always something you medicine. There's always something you can do. They die in units and they die can do. They die in units and they die can do. They die in units and they die in those sort of and the irony is the in those sort of and the irony is the in those sort of and the irony is the more they get it actually hasn't been more they get it actually hasn't been more they get it actually hasn't been shown to enhance life and what they get. shown to enhance life and what they get. shown to enhance life and what they get. The more care more aggressive care they The more care more aggressive care they The more care more aggressive care they get when they're dying. get when they're dying. get when they're dying. >> So you're saying that we we kind of drag >> So you're saying that we we kind of drag >> So you're saying that we we kind of drag it out a bit unnecessarily sometimes. it out a bit unnecessarily sometimes. it out a bit unnecessarily sometimes. >> I think medicine does its best to defy >> I think medicine does its best to defy >> I think medicine does its best to defy death and unfortunately it it often death and unfortunately it it often death and unfortunately it it often denies it even when it's obvious when denies it even when it's obvious when denies it even when it's obvious when things have become futile. things have become futile. things have become futile. And if medicine can't appreciate death And if medicine can't appreciate death And if medicine can't appreciate death when it's objectively there, they're when it's objectively there, they're when it's objectively there, they're certainly not going to pay attention to certainly not going to pay attention to certainly not going to pay attention to the experience of the dying.

the experience of the dying. the experience of the dying. And I think it's complicated but we've And I think it's complicated but we've And I think it's complicated but we've lost our way with dying. You know, dying lost our way with dying. You know, dying lost our way with dying. You know, dying used to be in the home and in the used to be in the home and in the used to be in the home and in the community when connection to our church community when connection to our church community when connection to our church and in the last 100 years it's become and in the last 100 years it's become and in the last 100 years it's become institutionalized. institutionalized. institutionalized. So death is now like a rumor. You know, So death is now like a rumor. You know, So death is now like a rumor. You know, it's something that happens somewhere it's something that happens somewhere it's something that happens somewhere down the line probably to somebody else down the line probably to somebody else down the line probably to somebody else but it's not proximate to us like it but it's not proximate to us like it but it's not proximate to us like it used to be. So you take all these used to be. So you take all these used to be. So you take all these factors together, the fact that we've factors together, the fact that we've factors together, the fact that we've institutionalized dying, the fact that institutionalized dying, the fact that institutionalized dying, the fact that medicine's become you know, technically medicine's become you know, technically medicine's become you know, technically focused and no longer artful. We don't focused and no longer artful. We don't focused and no longer artful. We don't it's not okay to be there for presence. it's not okay to be there for presence. it's not okay to be there for presence. I mean people can't die of old age I mean people can't die of old age I mean people can't die of old age anymore. You know, you you got to have anymore. You know, you you got to have anymore. You know, you you got to have about five diagnoses. So it's lost its about five diagnoses. So it's lost its about five diagnoses. So it's lost its grace. It's lost its humanity. grace. It's lost its humanity. grace. It's lost its humanity. >> So if someone knows they're going to >> So if someone knows they're going to >> So if someone knows they're going to die, you would recommend they die, you would recommend they die, you would recommend they usually didn't come to a hospice and usually didn't come to a hospice and usually didn't come to a hospice and they they they >> No, I get get into a hospice so you can >> No, I get get into a hospice so you can >> No, I get get into a hospice so you can die at home. die at home. die at home. >> Oh, hospice is at home. >> Oh, hospice is at home. >> Oh, hospice is at home. is more likely to align your wish to an is more likely to align your wish to an is more likely to align your wish to an outcome. Hospice is outcome. Hospice is outcome. Hospice is developed out of our communities as as developed out of our communities as as developed out of our communities as as an answer, as a rebuttal to the way an answer, as a rebuttal to the way an answer, as a rebuttal to the way dying were traditionally treated in a dying were traditionally treated in a dying were traditionally treated in a hospital. Yes, so what is it about dying hospital. Yes, so what is it about dying hospital. Yes, so what is it about dying in a hospital that is in a hospital that is in a hospital that is worse than dying at home? I don't know worse than dying at home? I don't know worse than dying at home? I don't know where to begin. What matters to the where to begin. What matters to the where to begin. What matters to the dying patient dying patient dying patient is familiarity, to be connected, to be is familiarity, to be connected, to be is familiarity, to be connected, to be where they live, where they live, where they live, the things that make them comfortable, the things that make them comfortable, the things that make them comfortable, the people they love. They don't want to the people they love. They don't want to the people they love. They don't want to be woken in the night, they don't want

be woken in the night, they don't want be woken in the night, they don't want to be poked, they don't want IVs, they to be poked, they don't want IVs, they to be poked, they don't want IVs, they don't want another scan. It goes down to don't want another scan. It goes down to don't want another scan. It goes down to what will make you comfortable. What what will make you comfortable. What what will make you comfortable. What matters to you in the end? And being at matters to you in the end? And being at matters to you in the end? And being at home with your people is what matters to home with your people is what matters to home with your people is what matters to people. people. people. >> Makes sense. So number seven, >> Makes sense. So number seven, >> Makes sense. So number seven, having care directives followed. What having care directives followed. What having care directives followed. What does that mean? does that mean? does that mean? >> And making sure that what you want to >> And making sure that what you want to >> And making sure that what you want to happen is going to happen. happen is going to happen. happen is going to happen. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And this one is this is >> Yeah. And this one is this is >> Yeah. And this one is this is interesting, I think, resolving interesting, I think, resolving interesting, I think, resolving conflicts. conflicts. conflicts. >> So medical students who are asked about >> So medical students who are asked about >> So medical students who are asked about what matters most to those that are what matters most to those that are what matters most to those that are dying, dying, dying, they ranked the seventh thing that would they ranked the seventh thing that would they ranked the seventh thing that would matter as resolving conflicts. matter as resolving conflicts. matter as resolving conflicts. >> And what's interesting is these two >> And what's interesting is these two >> And what's interesting is these two writers writers writers was life meaningful and resolving was life meaningful and resolving was life meaningful and resolving conflicts. And the dying patients kind conflicts. And the dying patients kind conflicts. And the dying patients kind of all good. of all good. of all good. They don't want to be a They're not a They don't want to be a They're not a They don't want to be a They're not a problem to be solved. problem to be solved. problem to be solved. >> That's interesting You're right, that is >> That's interesting You're right, that is >> That's interesting You're right, that is the most interesting takeaway so far is the most interesting takeaway so far is the most interesting takeaway so far is living people think the dying will be living people think the dying will be living people think the dying will be really concerned with legacy and what really concerned with legacy and what really concerned with legacy and what they accomplished and did they have any they accomplished and did they have any they accomplished and did they have any beef with anybody, but dying patients beef with anybody, but dying patients beef with anybody, but dying patients >> And that's why I have trouble with that >> And that's why I have trouble with that >> And that's why I have trouble with that regret literature, okay, because that's regret literature, okay, because that's regret literature, okay, because that's not what they're saying. They're not not what they're saying. They're not not what they're saying. They're not focused really on the negative aspects focused really on the negative aspects focused really on the negative aspects of having lived, right? They're trying of having lived, right? They're trying of having lived, right? They're trying to preserve what makes them them and to preserve what makes them them and to preserve what makes them them and what makes them them is their family.

what makes them them is their family. what makes them them is their family. And being in their home and being at And being in their home and being at And being in their home and being at peace with their God. peace with their God. peace with their God. >> I mean, that speaks to what we should be >> I mean, that speaks to what we should be >> I mean, that speaks to what we should be thinking about in our lives day-to-day thinking about in our lives day-to-day thinking about in our lives day-to-day to some degree. to some degree. to some degree. >> Well, and again, there's a bridge >> Well, and again, there's a bridge >> Well, and again, there's a bridge between these two things. It's not that between these two things. It's not that between these two things. It's not that actually The idea that this changes in actually The idea that this changes in actually The idea that this changes in death actually isn't all that true. death actually isn't all that true. death actually isn't all that true. I think we're aware of it in dying. Dr. I think we're aware of it in dying. Dr. I think we're aware of it in dying. Dr. Santos Yell does this wonderful work on Santos Yell does this wonderful work on Santos Yell does this wonderful work on happiness. If you go upstream and you do happiness. If you go upstream and you do happiness. If you go upstream and you do good you do that that her sort of work good you do that that her sort of work good you do that that her sort of work on happiness, you reveal a lot of these on happiness, you reveal a lot of these on happiness, you reveal a lot of these same truths. same truths. same truths. >> Well, we also live in a commercialized >> Well, we also live in a commercialized >> Well, we also live in a commercialized world where world where world where we're exposed to marketing and we're we're exposed to marketing and we're we're exposed to marketing and we're told what matters every day when we turn told what matters every day when we turn told what matters every day when we turn on the TV or open our phones. on the TV or open our phones. on the TV or open our phones. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And we're told that the Louis Vuitton >> And we're told that the Louis Vuitton >> And we're told that the Louis Vuitton bag matters. Where we clap when someone bag matters. Where we clap when someone bag matters. Where we clap when someone gets the promotion. So, there is an gets the promotion. So, there is an gets the promotion. So, there is an element of sort of socialization that element of sort of socialization that element of sort of socialization that orientates our values towards being more orientates our values towards being more orientates our values towards being more materialistic and materialistic and materialistic and I guess shallow to some degree. I guess shallow to some degree. I guess shallow to some degree. >> Those things are transient and >> Those things are transient and >> Those things are transient and non-sustaining. And one of the things non-sustaining. And one of the things non-sustaining. And one of the things that comes out of this happiness work is that comes out of this happiness work is that comes out of this happiness work is the the importance of savoring. the the importance of savoring. the the importance of savoring. And savoring things of worth like our And savoring things of worth like our And savoring things of worth like our relationships.

relationships. relationships. >> Are there any people that were days from >> Are there any people that were days from >> Are there any people that were days from their own passing that were truly their own passing that were truly their own passing that were truly unhappy unhappy unhappy because of the way that they'd lived because of the way that they'd lived because of the way that they'd lived their lives? their lives? their lives? >> Yeah, you die how you live, right? You >> Yeah, you die how you live, right? You >> Yeah, you die how you live, right? You can't reinvent it. It's not rainbows and can't reinvent it. It's not rainbows and can't reinvent it. It's not rainbows and flowers. I've certainly seen that and flowers. I've certainly seen that and flowers. I've certainly seen that and I've written about them and they're I've written about them and they're I've written about them and they're people who had done wrong and they were people who had done wrong and they were people who had done wrong and they were fearful of dying. fearful of dying. fearful of dying. >> Fearful of what? >> Fearful of what? >> Fearful of what? >> Well, in in several cases, they'd been >> Well, in in several cases, they'd been >> Well, in in several cases, they'd been raised Catholic and they were worried raised Catholic and they were worried raised Catholic and they were worried about judgment. And the one case was about judgment. And the one case was about judgment. And the one case was actually a police officer. So, he actually a police officer. So, he actually a police officer. So, he thought that he cuz he'd been thought that he cuz he'd been thought that he cuz he'd been raised with confession that he had to raised with confession that he had to raised with confession that he had to tell everybody all the horrible things tell everybody all the horrible things tell everybody all the horrible things he did wrong and it was kind of he did wrong and it was kind of he did wrong and it was kind of interesting. We had a reporter from the interesting. We had a reporter from the interesting. We had a reporter from the New York Times and she got an earful. He New York Times and she got an earful. He New York Times and she got an earful. He just had to be cathartic and say just had to be cathartic and say just had to be cathartic and say everything. He's trying to unleash his everything. He's trying to unleash his everything. He's trying to unleash his sins. But, it's very rare. sins. But, it's very rare. sins. But, it's very rare. >> In that case, you've got a police >> In that case, you've got a police >> In that case, you've got a police officer unleashing their sins. officer unleashing their sins. officer unleashing their sins. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Could that not >> Could that not >> Could that not result in legal consequences if they say result in legal consequences if they say result in legal consequences if they say things that things that things that >> Yeah, you think so because he talked >> Yeah, you think so because he talked >> Yeah, you think so because he talked about beating up witnesses and things about beating up witnesses and things about beating up witnesses and things like that. I never thought of that, but like that. I never thought of that, but like that. I never thought of that, but it's certainly true.

it's certainly true. it's certainly true. >> And nothing was done about that? >> And nothing was done about that? >> And nothing was done about that? >> No. And >> No. And >> No. And what was interesting is we had a what was interesting is we had a what was interesting is we had a criminal, like a guy who'd spent more criminal, like a guy who'd spent more criminal, like a guy who'd spent more time in his in prison than out at the time in his in prison than out at the time in his in prison than out at the same time. And actually he's on film. same time. And actually he's on film. same time. And actually he's on film. And he had regrets, true, but they got And he had regrets, true, but they got And he had regrets, true, but they got addressed at the end. addressed at the end. addressed at the end. >> What do you mean? >> What do you mean? >> What do you mean? >> Well, it's one of the most beautiful >> Well, it's one of the most beautiful >> Well, it's one of the most beautiful things. So, about 12% of our patients things. So, about 12% of our patients things. So, about 12% of our patients report dreams that are distressing or report dreams that are distressing or report dreams that are distressing or uncomfortable. They're not all uncomfortable. They're not all uncomfortable. They're not all comfortable. Again, it's not surprising. comfortable. Again, it's not surprising. comfortable. Again, it's not surprising. You're going to die the way you lived. You're going to die the way you lived. You're going to die the way you lived. And And what we got wrong was those are And And what we got wrong was those are And And what we got wrong was those are sometimes the most transformational. sometimes the most transformational. sometimes the most transformational. Those are the ones where they find Those are the ones where they find Those are the ones where they find healing. healing. healing. >> He had a dream about some of the bad >> He had a dream about some of the bad >> He had a dream about some of the bad things he'd done? things he'd done? things he'd done? >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> And that >> And that >> And that >> caused the transformation. You >> caused the transformation. You >> caused the transformation. You Dwayne Dwayne Dwayne >> And he'd commit crimes in his life? >> And he'd commit crimes in his life? >> And he'd commit crimes in his life? >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> What kind of crimes? >> What kind of crimes? >> What kind of crimes? >> Two attempted murders. >> Two attempted murders. >> Two attempted murders. A two murders, sorry, but both were A two murders, sorry, but both were A two murders, sorry, but both were self-defense on the street. Somebody self-defense on the street. Somebody self-defense on the street. Somebody were trying to rob them, sort of thing. were trying to rob them, sort of thing. were trying to rob them, sort of thing. He lived on the streets most of his He lived on the streets most of his He lived on the streets most of his life. life. life. But he never Again, he never reckoned But he never Again, he never reckoned But he never Again, he never reckoned with the things he had done wrong. And with the things he had done wrong. And with the things he had done wrong. And this is his reckoning.

this is his reckoning. this is his reckoning. >> And how >> And how >> And how many days was this before he passed many days was this before he passed many days was this before he passed away? away? away? >> 12. >> 12. >> 12. >> 12 days? >> 12 days? >> 12 days? >> My dreams, man. >> My dreams, man. >> My dreams, man. You know, my nightmares. You know, my nightmares. You know, my nightmares. I don't like them. I think it's because I don't like them. I think it's because I don't like them. I think it's because my my past is coming back to me. my my past is coming back to me. my my past is coming back to me. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> You know, >> You know, >> You know, from doing wrong. Because I'm not going from doing wrong. Because I'm not going from doing wrong. Because I'm not going to say I'm a perfect guy when I was out to say I'm a perfect guy when I was out to say I'm a perfect guy when I was out there. Because I was living right in the there. Because I was living right in the there. Because I was living right in the streets, you know, doing wrong to streets, you know, doing wrong to streets, you know, doing wrong to individuals. And now they know my individuals. And now they know my individuals. And now they know my symptoms. symptoms. symptoms. They know I'm sick. So, now they want to They know I'm sick. So, now they want to They know I'm sick. So, now they want to try to hurt me. try to hurt me. try to hurt me. You know, it was like they were jerking You know, it was like they were jerking You know, it was like they were jerking a knife. a knife. a knife. You know, You know, You know, trying to cut trying to cut trying to cut >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> cut out, you know, >> cut out, you know, >> cut out, you know, my neck my neck my neck >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> where my cancer was at. >> where my cancer was at. >> where my cancer was at. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Stop. Stop trying to fight, you know. >> Stop. Stop trying to fight, you know. >> Stop. Stop trying to fight, you know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, you know. Trying I'm sorry. I'm sorry, you know. Trying I'm sorry. I'm sorry, you know. Trying to fight to fight to fight this guy off from from hurting him. It this guy off from from hurting him. It this guy off from from hurting him. It scared me. scared me. scared me. I'm not a bad individual, man. I'm not a bad individual, man. I'm not a bad individual, man. A lot of cross A lot of cross A lot of cross a lot of people in my life.

a lot of people in my life. a lot of people in my life. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> You know, and I need help. >> You know, and I need help. >> You know, and I need help. I need help. You know, I need help. You know, I need help. You know, I don't I don't want to live my life I don't I don't want to live my life I don't I don't want to live my life >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> being >> being >> being I don't live in society walking I don't live in society walking I don't live in society walking >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> having to look over my back, man. I just >> having to look over my back, man. I just >> having to look over my back, man. I just want people to forgive me. want people to forgive me. want people to forgive me. And please And please And please know that I was sick know that I was sick know that I was sick >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> at the time when I was doing >> at the time when I was doing >> at the time when I was doing certain things that I was hurting them certain things that I was hurting them certain things that I was hurting them and their families. and their families. and their families. You know, that's all I want. You know, that's all I want. You know, that's all I want. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I don't want I don't want them to look >> I don't want I don't want them to look >> I don't want I don't want them to look at me as a bad individual because I'm at me as a bad individual because I'm at me as a bad individual because I'm not. not. not. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> You know, I need help. >> You know, I need help. >> You know, I need help. >> What ends up happening is he can't >> What ends up happening is he can't >> What ends up happening is he can't sleep. And again, going back to this sleep. And again, going back to this sleep. And again, going back to this idea that it's very hard to die if you idea that it's very hard to die if you idea that it's very hard to die if you can't sleep. can't sleep. can't sleep. He ends up waking up and he asks to see He ends up waking up and he asks to see He ends up waking up and he asks to see his daughter. his daughter. his daughter. And And And she comes on the film. she comes on the film. she comes on the film. And what she describes is for the first And what she describes is for the first And what she describes is for the first time in her life, he holds her for time in her life, he holds her for time in her life, he holds her for minutes and says how much he loves her minutes and says how much he loves her minutes and says how much he loves her and that he's sorry for what he had and that he's sorry for what he had and that he's sorry for what he had done.

done. done. So, this negative experience that was So, this negative experience that was So, this negative experience that was happening when his eyes closed brought happening when his eyes closed brought happening when his eyes closed brought this reckoning and this ask for this reckoning and this ask for this reckoning and this ask for forgiveness. forgiveness. forgiveness. Which, of course, she gave. Which, of course, she gave. Which, of course, she gave. >> And what do you make of that? Like >> And what do you make of that? Like >> And what do you make of that? Like again, I'm asking you this the same again, I'm asking you this the same again, I'm asking you this the same question I asked you earlier. It's like, question I asked you earlier. It's like, question I asked you earlier. It's like, what do you think is happening there? Is what do you think is happening there? Is what do you think is happening there? Is that a spiritual thing? Is that just that a spiritual thing? Is that just that a spiritual thing? Is that just him, you know, approaching the end of him, you know, approaching the end of him, you know, approaching the end of his life and feeling remorseful? So, his life and feeling remorseful? So, his life and feeling remorseful? So, he's having this dream. he's having this dream. he's having this dream. >> didn't have conscious control of this. I >> didn't have conscious control of this. I >> didn't have conscious control of this. I don't believe that for a second. This don't believe that for a second. This don't believe that for a second. This was happening when his eyes were closed. was happening when his eyes were closed. was happening when his eyes were closed. I think that he was carrying at a very I think that he was carrying at a very I think that he was carrying at a very deep level. He knew the wrongs that he deep level. He knew the wrongs that he deep level. He knew the wrongs that he had done. had done. had done. And this something was forcing him to And this something was forcing him to And this something was forcing him to find peace. find peace. find peace. And it did. And it did. And it did. >> Something. >> Something. >> Something. >> Something. Yeah, I think truth. I think >> Something. Yeah, I think truth. I think >> Something. Yeah, I think truth. I think somewhere in him he couldn't joke and somewhere in him he couldn't joke and somewhere in him he couldn't joke and contrive around it. Dying brings brought contrive around it. Dying brings brought contrive around it. Dying brings brought this to a surface and he needed to find this to a surface and he needed to find this to a surface and he needed to find peace. peace. peace. And it was wonderful for her. Changed And it was wonderful for her. Changed And it was wonderful for her. Changed her her her completely. And what ends up happening completely. And what ends up happening completely. And what ends up happening was she ends up spending every night was she ends up spending every night was she ends up spending every night with him.

with him. with him. Uh and he ends up passing comfortably. >> I am I have to stop here that genuinely >> I am I have to stop here that genuinely shocked me. It says that sales teams shocked me. It says that sales teams shocked me. It says that sales teams spend about 50% of their time on admin spend about 50% of their time on admin spend about 50% of their time on admin and manual CRM updates rather than and manual CRM updates rather than and manual CRM updates rather than selling. That is deadly for their bottom selling. That is deadly for their bottom selling. That is deadly for their bottom line. And that is part of the reason why line. And that is part of the reason why line. And that is part of the reason why a decade ago at my previous company I a decade ago at my previous company I a decade ago at my previous company I switched to using Pipedrive who are our switched to using Pipedrive who are our switched to using Pipedrive who are our sponsor. If you've never used Pipedrive, sponsor. If you've never used Pipedrive, sponsor. If you've never used Pipedrive, it is an intelligent AI-powered sales it is an intelligent AI-powered sales it is an intelligent AI-powered sales CRM and they just launched new meeting CRM and they just launched new meeting CRM and they just launched new meeting intelligence features like an AI intelligence features like an AI intelligence features like an AI note-taker built right into the CRM. note-taker built right into the CRM. note-taker built right into the CRM. Pipedrive now automates more of the Pipedrive now automates more of the Pipedrive now automates more of the admin that stops you from doing the work admin that stops you from doing the work admin that stops you from doing the work that you love to do best. Before your that you love to do best. Before your that you love to do best. Before your meeting, it pulls deal history, email meeting, it pulls deal history, email meeting, it pulls deal history, email records, and previous conversations into records, and previous conversations into records, and previous conversations into a single brief so you're prepared. And a single brief so you're prepared. And a single brief so you're prepared. And it joins your meetings with you. It's in it joins your meetings with you. It's in it joins your meetings with you. It's in there to take notes so you don't need to there to take notes so you don't need to there to take notes so you don't need to and it turns those notes that it takes and it turns those notes that it takes and it turns those notes that it takes into accurate auto-draft CRM updates. into accurate auto-draft CRM updates. into accurate auto-draft CRM updates. 100,000 companies are already running 100,000 companies are already running 100,000 companies are already running their sales on it. You can sign up at their sales on it. You can sign up at their sales on it. You can sign up at pipedrive.com/ pipedrive.com/ pipedrive.com/ ceo where you'll get an exclusive 30-day ceo where you'll get an exclusive 30-day ceo where you'll get an exclusive 30-day free trial instead of the usual 14 days.

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So, back to our board of things that So, back to our board of things that actually mattered. We're on number actually mattered. We're on number actually mattered. We're on number seven. seven. seven. >> Number eight. >> Number eight. >> Number eight. Feeling that life was meaningful. Feeling that life was meaningful. Feeling that life was meaningful. >> So, just to >> So, just to >> So, just to zoom out once again on this. Were they zoom out once again on this. Were they zoom out once again on this. Were they given 11 options, or were they given given 11 options, or were they given given 11 options, or were they given lots of options? lots of options? lots of options? >> Lots of options. >> Lots of options. >> Lots of options. >> Okay. And these are the 11 that they >> Okay. And these are the 11 that they >> Okay. And these are the 11 that they actually picked. Okay. So, number eight actually picked. Okay. So, number eight actually picked. Okay. So, number eight is they is they is they cared that life was meaningful. But this cared that life was meaningful. But this cared that life was meaningful. But this is particularly low is particularly low is particularly low relative to the others. relative to the others. relative to the others. >> And so is this one. >> And so is this one. >> And so is this one. >> Living as long as possible. >> Living as long as possible. >> Living as long as possible. >> Mhm. And you might know what? I've never >> Mhm. And you might know what? I've never >> Mhm. And you might know what? I've never heard a dying patient say, "I want to heard a dying patient say, "I want to heard a dying patient say, "I want to live as long as possible." live as long as possible." live as long as possible." What they want to do is live as well as What they want to do is live as well as What they want to do is live as well as they can as long as they can. they can as long as they can. they can as long as they can. But unless you've been sick, that's not But unless you've been sick, that's not But unless you've been sick, that's not the goal. Which is antithetical to way Which is antithetical to way medical world looks at patients, right? medical world looks at patients, right? medical world looks at patients, right? It's that we we keep going at all costs. It's that we we keep going at all costs. It's that we we keep going at all costs. >> I mean, this is stats that I was reading >> I mean, this is stats that I was reading >> I mean, this is stats that I was reading here about how many years people spend here about how many years people spend here about how many years people spend sick on average. sick on average. sick on average. I think it it was in the United States, I think it it was in the United States, I think it it was in the United States, if I have the stats right. Yeah, it says if I have the stats right. Yeah, it says if I have the stats right. Yeah, it says up to sort of 11 years of our lives are up to sort of 11 years of our lives are up to sort of 11 years of our lives are lived in poor health.

lived in poor health. lived in poor health. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So, although our health span is, you >> So, although our health span is, you >> So, although our health span is, you know, in the Western Pacific 68 years or know, in the Western Pacific 68 years or know, in the Western Pacific 68 years or in Europe 66 years, we spend about a in Europe 66 years, we spend about a in Europe 66 years, we spend about a decade in poor health. decade in poor health. decade in poor health. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And actually, what you were saying to me >> And actually, what you were saying to me >> And actually, what you were saying to me is that people care more about their is that people care more about their is that people care more about their health span, how many years of good health span, how many years of good health span, how many years of good health they have versus health they have versus health they have versus their lifespan, which is just how many their lifespan, which is just how many their lifespan, which is just how many years they're alive. years they're alive. years they're alive. >> I think that's a perspective that's very >> I think that's a perspective that's very >> I think that's a perspective that's very hard to understand in health. hard to understand in health. hard to understand in health. But it's hard work being sick, you know, But it's hard work being sick, you know, But it's hard work being sick, you know, and it's hard on those you love, so it and it's hard on those you love, so it and it's hard on those you love, so it makes sense to me. makes sense to me. makes sense to me. >> What about this um obviously a big >> What about this um obviously a big >> What about this um obviously a big subject at the moment is this longevity subject at the moment is this longevity subject at the moment is this longevity movement, people wanting to extend life movement, people wanting to extend life movement, people wanting to extend life and live forever and all these kinds of and live forever and all these kinds of and live forever and all these kinds of things. What is your perspective of things. What is your perspective of things. What is your perspective of seeing of interviewing thousands of seeing of interviewing thousands of seeing of interviewing thousands of people that are dying, how has it shaped people that are dying, how has it shaped people that are dying, how has it shaped your perspective on longevity? your perspective on longevity? your perspective on longevity? >> I think there's a risk of some illusion. >> I think there's a risk of some illusion. >> I think there's a risk of some illusion. There was an article in Science There was an article in Science There was an article in Science recently, 55% of lifespan is determined recently, 55% of lifespan is determined recently, 55% of lifespan is determined by genetics. by genetics. by genetics. And it doesn't leave you immune from And it doesn't leave you immune from And it doesn't leave you immune from circumstances of disease and whatnot. I circumstances of disease and whatnot. I circumstances of disease and whatnot. I worry a lot worry a lot worry a lot of the lack of evidence around some of of the lack of evidence around some of of the lack of evidence around some of the efforts.

the efforts. the efforts. And I think the focus really needs to be And I think the focus really needs to be And I think the focus really needs to be on living well. And if you look at the on living well. And if you look at the on living well. And if you look at the blue zone folks, blue zone folks, blue zone folks, I mean, I mean, I mean, that little lady in Japan or Italy isn't that little lady in Japan or Italy isn't that little lady in Japan or Italy isn't waking up from a cold plunge and waking up from a cold plunge and waking up from a cold plunge and measuring out creatine. measuring out creatine. measuring out creatine. She's just living well. They move, they She's just living well. They move, they She's just living well. They move, they eat more plants, they're highly social, eat more plants, they're highly social, eat more plants, they're highly social, they take time to downshift through they take time to downshift through they take time to downshift through prayer, meditation, would have music, prayer, meditation, would have music, prayer, meditation, would have music, whatever. whatever. whatever. >> When you think about all the people >> When you think about all the people >> When you think about all the people you've met who were days from their you've met who were days from their you've met who were days from their death, are there some who were more at death, are there some who were more at death, are there some who were more at peace with it because they had peace with it because they had peace with it because they had accomplished more? accomplished more? accomplished more? Like what what is what is the Like what what is what is the Like what what is what is the correlatory in terms of those that were correlatory in terms of those that were correlatory in terms of those that were most at peace with leaving the this most at peace with leaving the this most at peace with leaving the this planet? planet? planet? >> The love given and received. That's the >> The love given and received. That's the >> The love given and received. That's the only thing that only thing that only thing that matters. I I I've seen people who have matters. I I I've seen people who have matters. I I I've seen people who have led remarkably simple lives, led remarkably simple lives, led remarkably simple lives, but they were pure and in the love that but they were pure and in the love that but they were pure and in the love that they were able to experience. they were able to experience. they were able to experience. >> And so they were happier to leave.

>> And so they were happier to leave. >> And so they were happier to leave. >> Oh, yeah. You want to live in a way that >> Oh, yeah. You want to live in a way that >> Oh, yeah. You want to live in a way that that you can die well and and and that that you can die well and and and that that you can die well and and and that means loving well. means loving well. means loving well. >> And have you experienced the opposite >> And have you experienced the opposite >> And have you experienced the opposite where someone had nobody there? where someone had nobody there? where someone had nobody there? >> Oh, [gasps] >> Oh, [gasps] >> Oh, [gasps] um um um I've had some very bad experiences, I've had some very bad experiences, I've had some very bad experiences, people who were One of them I've written people who were One of them I've written people who were One of them I've written about who was taken as a child into a about who was taken as a child into a about who was taken as a child into a home situation that was really for kids home situation that was really for kids home situation that was really for kids with a lot of complexity and had never with a lot of complexity and had never with a lot of complexity and had never seen or experienced love and the seen or experienced love and the seen or experienced love and the emptiness she felt. I never forget what emptiness she felt. I never forget what emptiness she felt. I never forget what she said to me. She was watching she said to me. She was watching she said to me. She was watching somebody kiss on a screen and she goes, somebody kiss on a screen and she goes, somebody kiss on a screen and she goes, "You know, I look at that. I've never "You know, I look at that. I've never "You know, I look at that. I've never understood that." understood that." understood that." And her dying what was empty. And her dying what was empty. And her dying what was empty. Um Um Um and regretful. and regretful. and regretful. >> What do you mean? Take me into the >> What do you mean? Take me into the >> What do you mean? Take me into the nothingness. nothingness. nothingness. >> Just that she never She knew she never >> Just that she never She knew she never >> Just that she never She knew she never was loved. She She was denied love, was loved. She She was denied love, was loved. She She was denied love, denied love by parents. denied love by parents. denied love by parents. She was misused by men. So what she knew She was misused by men. So what she knew She was misused by men. So what she knew of love hurt her. of love hurt her. of love hurt her. And she was aware enough And she was aware enough And she was aware enough uh to know that.

uh to know that. uh to know that. >> And there was no one there when she >> And there was no one there when she >> And there was no one there when she passed away? passed away? passed away? >> No. >> No. >> No. No. No. No. It's interesting though. It's interesting though. It's interesting though. She had one very interesting dream. She She had one very interesting dream. She She had one very interesting dream. She had a man who had wanted to marry her, had a man who had wanted to marry her, had a man who had wanted to marry her, but she had been so taken advantage of but she had been so taken advantage of but she had been so taken advantage of that she was doubtful and that she was doubtful and that she was doubtful and as soon as he asked her, she moved out as soon as he asked her, she moved out as soon as he asked her, she moved out of their apartment. of their apartment. of their apartment. And And And as a way to self-protect. as a way to self-protect. as a way to self-protect. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> At the end of her life, he came to her >> At the end of her life, he came to her >> At the end of her life, he came to her and told her and told her and told her that he really did love her. that he really did love her. that he really did love her. So she was she was shown some version of So she was she was shown some version of So she was she was shown some version of it that that that was soothing to her. it that that that was soothing to her. it that that that was soothing to her. Um that How it. Um that How it. Um that How it. >> A lot of people, because of sort of >> A lot of people, because of sort of >> A lot of people, because of sort of early traumas are somewhat avoidant of early traumas are somewhat avoidant of early traumas are somewhat avoidant of love. love. love. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> You explained that she moved out of the >> You explained that she moved out of the >> You explained that she moved out of the apartment when someone tried to propose apartment when someone tried to propose apartment when someone tried to propose to her. I could almost relate to some to her. I could almost relate to some to her. I could almost relate to some degree. degree. degree. I remember my early years of my in my I remember my early years of my in my I remember my early years of my in my early teens, early teens, early teens, I was extremely avoidant of commitment I was extremely avoidant of commitment I was extremely avoidant of commitment or relationships or whatever. And I or relationships or whatever. And I or relationships or whatever. And I remember this particular person turning remember this particular person turning remember this particular person turning around to me after I pursued them for 4 around to me after I pursued them for 4 around to me after I pursued them for 4 years telling me that they would now years telling me that they would now years telling me that they would now want to be in a relationship with me and want to be in a relationship with me and want to be in a relationship with me and I remember immediately dissuading them.

I remember immediately dissuading them. I remember immediately dissuading them. >> After pursuing them for 4 years? >> After pursuing them for 4 years? >> After pursuing them for 4 years? >> For 4 years, for sure I think. >> For 4 years, for sure I think. >> For 4 years, for sure I think. >> Yeah, but but also a lot of it reads >> Yeah, but but also a lot of it reads >> Yeah, but but also a lot of it reads back to our our early models of love and back to our our early models of love and back to our our early models of love and connection and relationships. So, connection and relationships. So, connection and relationships. So, >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> where we modeled it in a healthy way. >> where we modeled it in a healthy way. >> where we modeled it in a healthy way. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> And this kind of brings me to the point >> And this kind of brings me to the point >> And this kind of brings me to the point around sort of overcoming around sort of overcoming around sort of overcoming trauma and wounds. How does the the the trauma and wounds. How does the the the trauma and wounds. How does the the the process of dying process of dying process of dying help us confront our earliest traumas or help us confront our earliest traumas or help us confront our earliest traumas or the traumas that have held us back in the traumas that have held us back in the traumas that have held us back in our lives? Have you seen evidence of our lives? Have you seen evidence of our lives? Have you seen evidence of that? that? that? >> Oh, lots. >> Oh, lots. >> Oh, lots. I'd seen it in this end-of-life process. I'd seen it in this end-of-life process. I'd seen it in this end-of-life process. And again, I think this is the most And again, I think this is the most And again, I think this is the most meaningful, for me personally, the most meaningful, for me personally, the most meaningful, for me personally, the most meaningful ones that I meaningful ones that I meaningful ones that I witness. So, I've seen a man who had witness. So, I've seen a man who had witness. So, I've seen a man who had lost his arm at the age of eight lost his arm at the age of eight lost his arm at the age of eight and he was from a an impoverished family and he was from a an impoverished family and he was from a an impoverished family and and and developmentally his whole identity was developmentally his whole identity was developmentally his whole identity was how was he going to be independent and how was he going to be independent and how was he going to be independent and be able to be a provider, etc. be able to be a provider, etc. be able to be a provider, etc. >> [gasps] >> [gasps] >> [gasps] >> And at the end of his life, he sees >> And at the end of his life, he sees >> And at the end of his life, he sees himself lying in a bed and everyone who himself lying in a bed and everyone who himself lying in a bed and everyone who he worked with came by him and told him he worked with came by him and told him he worked with came by him and told him he was the best worker they had known.

he was the best worker they had known. he was the best worker they had known. A mother whose child was in prison for A mother whose child was in prison for A mother whose child was in prison for drug offenses and her her identity as a drug offenses and her her identity as a drug offenses and her her identity as a mother is being questioned. And at the mother is being questioned. And at the mother is being questioned. And at the end of her life, her parents come to her end of her life, her parents come to her end of her life, her parents come to her and tell her she's loved and she was a and tell her she's loved and she was a and tell her she's loved and she was a good parent. good parent. good parent. >> In a vision? >> In a vision? >> In a vision? >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> No No, physically. >> No No, physically. >> No No, physically. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> No, but again, there's something in us >> No, but again, there's something in us >> No, but again, there's something in us that's innate that can heal these kind that's innate that can heal these kind that's innate that can heal these kind of broken pieces of us at the end that of broken pieces of us at the end that of broken pieces of us at the end that make us whole. So, a lot of Again, I I I make us whole. So, a lot of Again, I I I make us whole. So, a lot of Again, I I I come back to it, the most inspiring come back to it, the most inspiring come back to it, the most inspiring people are the people who have been people are the people who have been people are the people who have been harmed and often from no nothing of harmed and often from no nothing of harmed and often from no nothing of their own doing, but that find peace in their own doing, but that find peace in their own doing, but that find peace in the end. the end. the end. >> Do you think there is life after death? >> Do you think there is life after death? >> Do you think there is life after death? >> Hm. >> Hm. >> Hm. >> Cuz one train of thought is that, you >> Cuz one train of thought is that, you >> Cuz one train of thought is that, you know, our body's going to the ground or know, our body's going to the ground or know, our body's going to the ground or we're cremated and then we become dust we're cremated and then we become dust we're cremated and then we become dust and then the trees, you know, we become and then the trees, you know, we become and then the trees, you know, we become part of the trees and the bees and the part of the trees and the bees and the part of the trees and the bees and the birds, birds, birds, and that's it. and that's it. and that's it. >> Yeah, I don't think we go on in a >> Yeah, I don't think we go on in a >> Yeah, I don't think we go on in a physical form, but I go back to this physical form, but I go back to this physical form, but I go back to this idea that there's the shared seems to be idea that there's the shared seems to be idea that there's the shared seems to be the shared consciousness that the love the shared consciousness that the love the shared consciousness that the love that we've experienced at early in life that we've experienced at early in life that we've experienced at early in life and it's very interesting, it tends to and it's very interesting, it tends to and it's very interesting, it tends to be those who loved us unconditionally be those who loved us unconditionally be those who loved us unconditionally and the other ones kind of go by the and the other ones kind of go by the and the other ones kind of go by the wayside, they're they're inseparable wayside, they're they're inseparable wayside, they're they're inseparable from us from us from us and they become more present to us as and they become more present to us as and they become more present to us as we're leaving our physical form.

we're leaving our physical form. we're leaving our physical form. So, it does suggest that there's some So, it does suggest that there's some So, it does suggest that there's some sort of collective consciousness that sort of collective consciousness that sort of collective consciousness that goes on. And back to your survey on the goes on. And back to your survey on the goes on. And back to your survey on the bereaved, the fact that that many people bereaved, the fact that that many people bereaved, the fact that that many people feel that they're accessed feel that they're accessed feel that they're accessed by those who have passed is interesting. by those who have passed is interesting. by those who have passed is interesting. How do you see that? How do you see that? How do you see that? >> I think the consciousness is a really >> I think the consciousness is a really >> I think the consciousness is a really fascinating thing. You know, I've fascinating thing. You know, I've fascinating thing. You know, I've interviewed lots of people on this interviewed lots of people on this interviewed lots of people on this subject and subject and subject and I never really thought of consciousness I never really thought of consciousness I never really thought of consciousness as a thing before. as a thing before. as a thing before. But I've got a couple of hypotheses But I've got a couple of hypotheses But I've got a couple of hypotheses around what consciousness might be. around what consciousness might be. around what consciousness might be. None of them I can say I necessarily None of them I can say I necessarily None of them I can say I necessarily believe, but I remember one in believe, but I remember one in believe, but I remember one in particular, I think it was a physicist particular, I think it was a physicist particular, I think it was a physicist telling me telling me telling me that that that he thinks maybe consciousness is the way he thinks maybe consciousness is the way he thinks maybe consciousness is the way that the universe understands itself. that the universe understands itself. that the universe understands itself. And he hypothesized to me that And he hypothesized to me that And he hypothesized to me that consciousness breaks itself into lots of consciousness breaks itself into lots of consciousness breaks itself into lots of little pieces, into fish at the bottom little pieces, into fish at the bottom little pieces, into fish at the bottom of the ocean and then human beings that of the ocean and then human beings that of the ocean and then human beings that walk the land and birds that see from walk the land and birds that see from walk the land and birds that see from the sky, the sky, the sky, and it's consciousness's way of of and it's consciousness's way of of and it's consciousness's way of of learning about itself and understanding learning about itself and understanding learning about itself and understanding itself as it breaks itself into these itself as it breaks itself into these itself as it breaks itself into these living organisms. He sends some of them living organisms. He sends some of them living organisms. He sends some of them to the bottom of the oceans and some of to the bottom of the oceans and some of to the bottom of the oceans and some of them to the top of the mountains and them to the top of the mountains and them to the top of the mountains and they all explore in it. Maybe it they all explore in it. Maybe it they all explore in it. Maybe it explains why humans, but all animals, explains why humans, but all animals, explains why humans, but all animals, are so fascinated by novelty. Reason we are so fascinated by novelty. Reason we are so fascinated by novelty. Reason we go on holidays is because we want to go on holidays is because we want to go on holidays is because we want to have new experiences. We we go and look have new experiences. We we go and look have new experiences. We we go and look up in awe at things we've never seen up in awe at things we've never seen up in awe at things we've never seen before like mountains and it's before like mountains and it's before like mountains and it's interesting, you know, I was telling the interesting, you know, I was telling the interesting, you know, I was telling the story about being in, I think, Gibraltar story about being in, I think, Gibraltar story about being in, I think, Gibraltar or Malta or whatever it was and driving or Malta or whatever it was and driving or Malta or whatever it was and driving down the street after I'd had this down the street after I'd had this down the street after I'd had this conversation with this physicist and and conversation with this physicist and and conversation with this physicist and and looking at tourists in a completely new looking at tourists in a completely new looking at tourists in a completely new light because tourists are stood there light because tourists are stood there light because tourists are stood there for 10 minutes or an hour staring at for 10 minutes or an hour staring at for 10 minutes or an hour staring at something they've never seen before. And

something they've never seen before. And something they've never seen before. And it's just it's interesting to me that it's just it's interesting to me that it's just it's interesting to me that that's part of the the animal experience that's part of the the animal experience that's part of the the animal experience is this fascination with things we is this fascination with things we is this fascination with things we haven't seen. So, maybe this hypothesis haven't seen. So, maybe this hypothesis haven't seen. So, maybe this hypothesis that consciousness is that consciousness is that consciousness is this central source that breaks into this central source that breaks into this central source that breaks into lots of pieces and goes off into lots of pieces and goes off into lots of pieces and goes off into existence to understand itself existence to understand itself existence to understand itself is a, you know, is a plausible is a, you know, is a plausible is a, you know, is a plausible not completely indefensible, but not completely indefensible, but not completely indefensible, but plausible idea. And then maybe when I plausible idea. And then maybe when I plausible idea. And then maybe when I die, I go I return back to die, I go I return back to die, I go I return back to the source of consciousness. the source of consciousness. the source of consciousness. >> I like my version better. >> I like my version better. >> I like my version better. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> And you know what's interesting is that >> And you know what's interesting is that >> And you know what's interesting is that you should look at is the work that's you should look at is the work that's you should look at is the work that's done with psychedelics and dying done with psychedelics and dying done with psychedelics and dying patients. patients. patients. >> Tell me about that. >> Tell me about that. >> Tell me about that. >> Basically, when they give psychedelic >> Basically, when they give psychedelic >> Basically, when they give psychedelic drugs, which the indigenous people have drugs, which the indigenous people have drugs, which the indigenous people have been been been doing for thousands of years doing for thousands of years doing for thousands of years they come back structurally altered. they come back structurally altered. they come back structurally altered. First of all, their fear of dying First of all, their fear of dying First of all, their fear of dying dissipates. dissipates. dissipates. And they tend to see themselves as And they tend to see themselves as And they tend to see themselves as something larger. something larger. something larger. Immersed within and connected to uh to Immersed within and connected to uh to Immersed within and connected to uh to life at large, but they do they they're life at large, but they do they they're life at large, but they do they they're at peace at peace at peace in a beautiful way. So, they have this in a beautiful way. So, they have this in a beautiful way. So, they have this heightened awareness and they come back heightened awareness and they come back heightened awareness and they come back differently and they die differently.

differently and they die differently. differently and they die differently. And that's like with this work, they die And that's like with this work, they die And that's like with this work, they die differently. differently. differently. >> So, back to our board here. What was the >> So, back to our board here. What was the >> So, back to our board here. What was the 10th thing? What matters most to people 10th thing? What matters most to people 10th thing? What matters most to people at the end of their life? at the end of their life? at the end of their life? Having finances in order. Hmm, Having finances in order. Hmm, Having finances in order. Hmm, interesting. interesting. interesting. >> And the last one is resolving conflicts. >> And the last one is resolving conflicts. >> And the last one is resolving conflicts. And that's where I have trouble with the And that's where I have trouble with the And that's where I have trouble with the idea of regret. Yeah, because it's not idea of regret. Yeah, because it's not idea of regret. Yeah, because it's not that important to be So if So now invert that important to be So if So now invert that important to be So if So now invert this. So if you went to people and said, this. So if you went to people and said, this. So if you went to people and said, "Do you have conflicts?" They go, "Yeah, "Do you have conflicts?" They go, "Yeah, "Do you have conflicts?" They go, "Yeah, I have conflicts." Or "Do you have I have conflicts." Or "Do you have I have conflicts." Or "Do you have regrets?" "Yeah, I have them." But when regrets?" "Yeah, I have them." But when regrets?" "Yeah, I have them." But when you actually rank order them as you actually rank order them as you actually rank order them as priorities, it's not relevant. priorities, it's not relevant. priorities, it's not relevant. >> Very interesting. >> Very interesting. >> Very interesting. Very, very interesting. It's definitely Very, very interesting. It's definitely Very, very interesting. It's definitely changed my mind cuz you're right. changed my mind cuz you're right. changed my mind cuz you're right. Because we, Because we, Because we, you know, we go and talk we talk about you know, we go and talk we talk about you know, we go and talk we talk about regrets at the end of your life and regrets at the end of your life and regrets at the end of your life and regret generally so often, we end up regret generally so often, we end up regret generally so often, we end up misunderstanding that to mean that misunderstanding that to mean that misunderstanding that to mean that regrets are the most important thing and regrets are the most important thing and regrets are the most important thing and that you need to live your life in a way that you need to live your life in a way that you need to live your life in a way where you don't have regrets. But where you don't have regrets. But where you don't have regrets. But actually, you're saying that having actually, you're saying that having actually, you're saying that having spoken to those that are dying, spoken to those that are dying, spoken to those that are dying, living their life free from regret seems living their life free from regret seems living their life free from regret seems to be quite low in the priorities of the to be quite low in the priorities of the to be quite low in the priorities of the >> What I think it is is a symptom of our >> What I think it is is a symptom of our >> What I think it is is a symptom of our times, right? Which we we become times, right? Which we we become times, right? Which we we become introspective and self-analytical. So if introspective and self-analytical. So if introspective and self-analytical. So if you if you ask these questions, you if you ask these questions, you if you ask these questions, they're going to come up. But in the in they're going to come up. But in the in they're going to come up. But in the in the lived experiences, are they actually the lived experiences, are they actually the lived experiences, are they actually relevant?

relevant? relevant? >> So, >> So, >> So, we have these six handwritten cards. we have these six handwritten cards. we have these six handwritten cards. >> Um so these are the lessons I've learned >> Um so these are the lessons I've learned >> Um so these are the lessons I've learned from actually caring for dying patients. from actually caring for dying patients. from actually caring for dying patients. And probably the one And probably the one And probably the one that stands out the most is that love that stands out the most is that love that stands out the most is that love endures after physical loss. endures after physical loss. endures after physical loss. >> Love endures after physical loss. >> Love endures after physical loss. >> Love endures after physical loss. >> So the idea that um and this is really >> So the idea that um and this is really >> So the idea that um and this is really what our research bears out, which is what our research bears out, which is what our research bears out, which is that people who have been lost often that people who have been lost often that people who have been lost often decades earlier are there for us at the decades earlier are there for us at the decades earlier are there for us at the end. And that that part of that dying end. And that that part of that dying end. And that that part of that dying process is this reunion with and to process is this reunion with and to process is this reunion with and to them. them. them. Um so that that survives. Um so that that survives. Um so that that survives. >> And on that point, it's probably a good >> And on that point, it's probably a good >> And on that point, it's probably a good time to touch on the subject of grief time to touch on the subject of grief time to touch on the subject of grief Mhm. and how the dying process impacts Mhm. and how the dying process impacts Mhm. and how the dying process impacts the grief that those left behind the grief that those left behind the grief that those left behind experience. experience. experience. >> Yeah, uh and we've done a lot of work on >> Yeah, uh and we've done a lot of work on >> Yeah, uh and we've done a lot of work on this. And and a long story short is that this. And and a long story short is that this. And and a long story short is that how people die um absolutely affects our how people die um absolutely affects our how people die um absolutely affects our bereavement. bereavement. bereavement. How we witness that changes our our How we witness that changes our our How we witness that changes our our bereavement, and it's measurable. So, bereavement, and it's measurable. So, bereavement, and it's measurable. So, people who have had these experiences, people who have had these experiences, people who have had these experiences, who have watched their loved one who have watched their loved one who have watched their loved one reconnect, grieve very differently, and reconnect, grieve very differently, and reconnect, grieve very differently, and it's measurable actually in grief. How it's measurable actually in grief. How it's measurable actually in grief. How they they they remember, how they recall, how they get remember, how they recall, how they get remember, how they recall, how they get through obstacles, how they heal.

through obstacles, how they heal. through obstacles, how they heal. >> So, if I want to grieve in the most >> So, if I want to grieve in the most >> So, if I want to grieve in the most healthy way, healthy way, healthy way, what dying experience is most conducive what dying experience is most conducive what dying experience is most conducive with that? with that? with that? >> Oh, seeing that loved one as rich in >> Oh, seeing that loved one as rich in >> Oh, seeing that loved one as rich in love rather than empty and defined by love rather than empty and defined by love rather than empty and defined by their physical dimensions. And I don't their physical dimensions. And I don't their physical dimensions. And I don't know if it would help you want to show know if it would help you want to show know if it would help you want to show the video of Jennifer. the video of Jennifer. the video of Jennifer. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> This is an interesting video for a >> This is an interesting video for a >> This is an interesting video for a couple of reasons, because these couple of reasons, because these couple of reasons, because these end-of-life end-of-life end-of-life events are not these great epiphanies or events are not these great epiphanies or events are not these great epiphanies or revelations. They're just about very revelations. They're just about very revelations. They're just about very real moments that are symbolic, usually real moments that are symbolic, usually real moments that are symbolic, usually of a relationship. of a relationship. of a relationship. And she's describing her partner, And she's describing her partner, And she's describing her partner, Patrick, who's at the end of his life, Patrick, who's at the end of his life, Patrick, who's at the end of his life, and he has these experiences. But, she and he has these experiences. But, she and he has these experiences. But, she describes what it means to her. describes what it means to her. describes what it means to her. >> Patrick was the only member of his >> Patrick was the only member of his >> Patrick was the only member of his family that knows how to make the sauce. family that knows how to make the sauce. family that knows how to make the sauce. And for all the years I knew him, he And for all the years I knew him, he And for all the years I knew him, he insisted something was missing. insisted something was missing. insisted something was missing. >> After his grandmother had passed? >> After his grandmother had passed? >> After his grandmother had passed? >> After she had passed. This would be the >> After she had passed. This would be the >> After she had passed. This would be the Sunday before he passed. Sunday before he passed. Sunday before he passed. He woke up in the morning, and I He woke up in the morning, and I He woke up in the morning, and I couldn't get him to eat. He wasn't couldn't get him to eat. He wasn't couldn't get him to eat. He wasn't hungry, total loss of appetite.

hungry, total loss of appetite. hungry, total loss of appetite. And I'm like, "Baby, we got to make you And I'm like, "Baby, we got to make you And I'm like, "Baby, we got to make you something for breakfast. What do you something for breakfast. What do you something for breakfast. What do you want?" He goes, "I'm full." want?" He goes, "I'm full." want?" He goes, "I'm full." I said, I said, I said, "Pat, you had a snack pack pudding "Pat, you had a snack pack pudding "Pat, you had a snack pack pudding yesterday. You're not full." yesterday. You're not full." yesterday. You're not full." And he's like, "Oh, no. I ate with with And he's like, "Oh, no. I ate with with And he's like, "Oh, no. I ate with with Nana Dolores last night." Nana Dolores last night." Nana Dolores last night." He believed He believed He believed he made sauce he made sauce he made sauce with his grandmother with his grandmother with his grandmother the night before. the night before. the night before. Said he could smell it. He could still Said he could smell it. He could still Said he could smell it. He could still taste it. He was full from it. taste it. He was full from it. taste it. He was full from it. And she showed him, after all these And she showed him, after all these And she showed him, after all these years, what he had done wrong, years, what he had done wrong, years, what he had done wrong, which is the very last step before you which is the very last step before you which is the very last step before you take it off the burner, was to add take it off the burner, was to add take it off the burner, was to add a teaspoon of sugar. We spent the next 7 a teaspoon of sugar. We spent the next 7 a teaspoon of sugar. We spent the next 7 and 1/2 hours cuz that's how long it and 1/2 hours cuz that's how long it and 1/2 hours cuz that's how long it takes takes takes making his grandmother's sauce. He added making his grandmother's sauce. He added making his grandmother's sauce. He added the sugar. the sugar. the sugar. Last time Patrick ever ate. Every Last time Patrick ever ate. Every Last time Patrick ever ate. Every morning he woke up saying, morning he woke up saying, morning he woke up saying, "Is today the day I'm going to die?" "Is today the day I'm going to die?" "Is today the day I'm going to die?" And I said, "Joe, go when you're ready."

And I said, "Joe, go when you're ready." And I said, "Joe, go when you're ready." And he was ready. And he was ready. And he was ready. >> Did that dream help >> Did that dream help >> Did that dream help help you accept that reality further? help you accept that reality further? help you accept that reality further? >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. And um >> Absolutely. And um >> Absolutely. And um not only the reality that he is gone, not only the reality that he is gone, not only the reality that he is gone, it's made me think of it's made me think of it's made me think of maybe there is something out there after maybe there is something out there after maybe there is something out there after we go. we go. we go. >> So, how she remembers him in death was >> So, how she remembers him in death was >> So, how she remembers him in death was that he was put back together by being that he was put back together by being that he was put back together by being with those he loved. with those he loved. with those he loved. >> So, if I know that one of my relatives >> So, if I know that one of my relatives >> So, if I know that one of my relatives is going to pass away, what should I be is going to pass away, what should I be is going to pass away, what should I be doing to cuz you know, my first instinct doing to cuz you know, my first instinct doing to cuz you know, my first instinct in that scenario is to protect my family in that scenario is to protect my family in that scenario is to protect my family from the grief of it, to make sure that from the grief of it, to make sure that from the grief of it, to make sure that the grief process is as healthy as it the grief process is as healthy as it the grief process is as healthy as it can possibly be. And I'm not trying to, can possibly be. And I'm not trying to, can possibly be. And I'm not trying to, you know, deny grief in any way cuz I you know, deny grief in any way cuz I you know, deny grief in any way cuz I know that it's kind of unavoidable from know that it's kind of unavoidable from know that it's kind of unavoidable from everything I've read, but everything I've read, but everything I've read, but is there things we can do as a family to is there things we can do as a family to is there things we can do as a family to insulate us from having a really insulate us from having a really insulate us from having a really negative grieving process? negative grieving process? negative grieving process? >> Yeah, I think one is obviously >> Yeah, I think one is obviously >> Yeah, I think one is obviously communicating and being open with with communicating and being open with with communicating and being open with with each other and with what's happening. I each other and with what's happening. I each other and with what's happening. I think one of the worst outcomes we see think one of the worst outcomes we see think one of the worst outcomes we see and when death is denied. So, if you see and when death is denied. So, if you see and when death is denied. So, if you see it, if it's forecastable and it's it, if it's forecastable and it's it, if it's forecastable and it's obvious and you're proximate to us, it's obvious and you're proximate to us, it's obvious and you're proximate to us, it's less of an injury than if it's denied, less of an injury than if it's denied, less of an injury than if it's denied, denied, denied and then denied, denied and then denied, denied and then >> And then it happens.

>> And then it happens. >> And then it happens. >> Yes, and we see so much of that in >> Yes, and we see so much of that in >> Yes, and we see so much of that in medicine. So, this is a rule for life medicine. So, this is a rule for life medicine. So, this is a rule for life which is acceptance. Oh gosh, yeah. A which is acceptance. Oh gosh, yeah. A which is acceptance. Oh gosh, yeah. A third of our patients that come to third of our patients that come to third of our patients that come to hospice are dead in 7 days. hospice are dead in 7 days. hospice are dead in 7 days. They didn't just didn't start dying They didn't just didn't start dying They didn't just didn't start dying seven days. They became aware of it. So, seven days. They became aware of it. So, seven days. They became aware of it. So, what we do is we refer this as medical what we do is we refer this as medical what we do is we refer this as medical harm. We deny them and separate them and harm. We deny them and separate them and harm. We deny them and separate them and deny their reality. So, they're left to deny their reality. So, they're left to deny their reality. So, they're left to figure it out suddenly and acutely. And figure it out suddenly and acutely. And figure it out suddenly and acutely. And that injury is you're robbing people of that injury is you're robbing people of that injury is you're robbing people of their agency, their time to spend the their agency, their time to spend the their agency, their time to spend the way they want, have the conversations way they want, have the conversations way they want, have the conversations they need to have. And the impact to the they need to have. And the impact to the they need to have. And the impact to the bereaved is enormous. bereaved is enormous. bereaved is enormous. >> So, acceptance number one. Anything >> So, acceptance number one. Anything >> So, acceptance number one. Anything else? else? else? >> Yeah, I had presence. >> Yeah, I had presence. >> Yeah, I had presence. >> Presence. >> Presence. >> Presence. >> And it used to be this way. It used to >> And it used to be this way. It used to >> And it used to be this way. It used to be death was in the home and it was in be death was in the home and it was in be death was in the home and it was in the community. It was shared. And that the community. It was shared. And that the community. It was shared. And that shared grief is is wonderful because shared grief is is wonderful because shared grief is is wonderful because we're meant to be mutually supportive. we're meant to be mutually supportive. we're meant to be mutually supportive. The opposite is a sterilized death. So, The opposite is a sterilized death. So, The opposite is a sterilized death. So, in an intensive care unit, in a gown, in an intensive care unit, in a gown, in an intensive care unit, in a gown, you know, you know, you know, anything that dehumanizes the process of anything that dehumanizes the process of anything that dehumanizes the process of dying is injurious. dying is injurious. dying is injurious. >> So, acceptance, physical presence.

>> So, acceptance, physical presence. >> So, acceptance, physical presence. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Anything else that helps the grief >> Anything else that helps the grief >> Anything else that helps the grief process? process? process? >> Loving each other. >> Loving each other. >> Loving each other. Talking, sharing, acknowledging. Talking, sharing, acknowledging. Talking, sharing, acknowledging. Anything that's repressive or denying Anything that's repressive or denying Anything that's repressive or denying about it, whether it's your own about it, whether it's your own about it, whether it's your own feelings, whether it's what's happening feelings, whether it's what's happening feelings, whether it's what's happening to the patient, is harmful. to the patient, is harmful. to the patient, is harmful. Period. Period. Period. That's why death in the home is so That's why death in the home is so That's why death in the home is so different. different. different. You know, the person's seen as a as a You know, the person's seen as a as a You know, the person's seen as a as a person, not a patient, right? person, not a patient, right? person, not a patient, right? And the patients know us instinctively. And the patients know us instinctively. And the patients know us instinctively. That's why they want to get back home. That's why they want to get back home. That's why they want to get back home. This is your father This is your father This is your father >> passed away when you were >> passed away when you were >> passed away when you were >> Yeah, I was 12. >> Yeah, I was 12. >> Yeah, I was 12. >> You were 12 and he was 41? >> You were 12 and he was 41? >> You were 12 and he was 41? >> 42, I think. >> 42, I think. >> 42, I think. >> He passed away of >> He passed away of >> He passed away of >> cancer. >> cancer. >> cancer. >> Cancer. >> Cancer. >> Cancer. In what way was this formative? In what way was this formative? In what way was this formative? >> Well, I >> Well, I >> Well, I I think it I think it I think it it shaped life in certain ways that I it shaped life in certain ways that I it shaped life in certain ways that I wouldn't have chosen. wouldn't have chosen. wouldn't have chosen. Um Um Um and that I don't understand.

The one thing was that you know, that The one thing was that you know, that that sort of loss at that sort of at that sort of loss at that sort of at that sort of loss at that sort of at that point in your life changed the that point in your life changed the that point in your life changed the trajectory of your life. You you just trajectory of your life. You you just trajectory of your life. You you just you don't just lose the person, you lose you don't just lose the person, you lose you don't just lose the person, you lose the world the way it's supposed to be. the world the way it's supposed to be. the world the way it's supposed to be. And for my for me, And for my for me, And for my for me, my world went off the tracks pretty my world went off the tracks pretty my world went off the tracks pretty badly. It was a pretty bumpy road. badly. It was a pretty bumpy road. badly. It was a pretty bumpy road. But you know, But you know, But you know, and it's so unusual because the last and it's so unusual because the last and it's so unusual because the last time I saw him, time I saw him, time I saw him, he was having one of these end-of-life he was having one of these end-of-life he was having one of these end-of-life experiences. experiences. experiences. I still can't make sense of it all I still can't make sense of it all I still can't make sense of it all because then after he died for many because then after he died for many because then after he died for many years, I could never speak his name. I years, I could never speak his name. I years, I could never speak his name. I couldn't certainly couldn't talk about couldn't certainly couldn't talk about couldn't certainly couldn't talk about the last time I saw him. the last time I saw him. the last time I saw him. So the irony So the irony So the irony that the thing I could never talk talk that the thing I could never talk talk that the thing I could never talk talk about about about it is the thing that I now share with it is the thing that I now share with it is the thing that I now share with millions of people. I feel like I'm millions of people. I feel like I'm millions of people. I feel like I'm getting pumped. Like getting pumped. Like getting pumped. Like I didn't mean for this to happen. I didn't mean for this to happen. I didn't mean for this to happen. And you wonder though, you know, that And you wonder though, you know, that And you wonder though, you know, that sort of loss does change you, right? It sort of loss does change you, right? It sort of loss does change you, right? It it changes what you're sensitive to and it changes what you're sensitive to and it changes what you're sensitive to and others, what you see in others, others, what you see in others, others, what you see in others, what you feel from others, how you want what you feel from others, how you want what you feel from others, how you want to help. Does does grief ever go away?

to help. Does does grief ever go away? to help. Does does grief ever go away? Uh, it doesn't. Uh, it doesn't. Uh, it doesn't. >> I think grief uh there's a >> I think grief uh there's a >> I think grief uh there's a period where grief is unbearable. period where grief is unbearable. period where grief is unbearable. And it's like having this rock in your And it's like having this rock in your And it's like having this rock in your pocket. You know it's there and other pocket. You know it's there and other pocket. You know it's there and other times you forget it. times you forget it. times you forget it. You lose the person in the physical You lose the person in the physical You lose the person in the physical form, form, form, but they still relate to you in other but they still relate to you in other but they still relate to you in other ways. It changes how you see the world ways. It changes how you see the world ways. It changes how you see the world for having known them. for having known them. for having known them. So they continue on in some way. So they continue on in some way. So they continue on in some way. We talk about grief in terms of what we We talk about grief in terms of what we We talk about grief in terms of what we lose, but not necessarily what remains. lose, but not necessarily what remains. lose, but not necessarily what remains. And a lot of that person remains. And a lot of that person remains. And a lot of that person remains. And and and and that's remembered. And I And and and and that's remembered. And I And and and and that's remembered. And I think think think you grief is probably one of the most you grief is probably one of the most you grief is probably one of the most illuminating things that can happen in illuminating things that can happen in illuminating things that can happen in your life. your life. your life. It changes It changes It changes your life, the circumstances. I wouldn't your life, the circumstances. I wouldn't your life, the circumstances. I wouldn't be talking to you if I hadn't lost my be talking to you if I hadn't lost my be talking to you if I hadn't lost my father as a boy, for example. Wouldn't father as a boy, for example. Wouldn't father as a boy, for example. Wouldn't happen. happen. happen. Because a chain of events Because a chain of events Because a chain of events took place. took place. took place. >> And you interviewed 750 grieving >> And you interviewed 750 grieving >> And you interviewed 750 grieving families.

families. families. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. I think there's a great expression that I think there's a great expression that I think there's a great expression that you know, the trick is, the art is, is you know, the trick is, the art is, is you know, the trick is, the art is, is to carry grief in one hand, gratitude in to carry grief in one hand, gratitude in to carry grief in one hand, gratitude in the other, and be struck by both. You the other, and be struck by both. You the other, and be struck by both. You know, you don't deny the grief, but you know, you don't deny the grief, but you know, you don't deny the grief, but you learn how to be grateful. And somewhere learn how to be grateful. And somewhere learn how to be grateful. And somewhere um there's peace there. um there's peace there. um there's peace there. >> When you interviewed those 750 grieving >> When you interviewed those 750 grieving >> When you interviewed those 750 grieving families, families, families, did you notice did you notice did you notice a difference between those that really a difference between those that really a difference between those that really carried the grief well carried the grief well carried the grief well versus those that versus those that versus those that didn't carry it so well? didn't carry it so well? didn't carry it so well? >> Yeah, but but we were looking at a very >> Yeah, but but we were looking at a very >> Yeah, but but we were looking at a very specific question. We were looking at specific question. We were looking at specific question. We were looking at families who had seen these end-of-life families who had seen these end-of-life families who had seen these end-of-life experiences. experiences. experiences. And the best example I can give you is And the best example I can give you is And the best example I can give you is say you have a couple say you have a couple say you have a couple and they've been married for six and they've been married for six and they've been married for six decades. decades. decades. And part of their shared life was losing And part of their shared life was losing And part of their shared life was losing a child, an infant. a child, an infant. a child, an infant. And the spouse is looking down at his And the spouse is looking down at his And the spouse is looking down at his loved one in the bed, the woman in the loved one in the bed, the woman in the loved one in the bed, the woman in the bed. bed. bed. And she in in her inner experiences is And she in in her inner experiences is And she in in her inner experiences is holding this deceased child.

holding this deceased child. holding this deceased child. And she's at peace. And she's at peace. And she's at peace. And And And that that well one connects all lives, that that well one connects all lives, that that well one connects all lives, right? Living and dead, but it reframes right? Living and dead, but it reframes right? Living and dead, but it reframes dying from something that could be empty dying from something that could be empty dying from something that could be empty and only defined by its physical and only defined by its physical and only defined by its physical dimensionality, what you're seeing, dimensionality, what you're seeing, dimensionality, what you're seeing, and it shows that it can be rich in and it shows that it can be rich in and it shows that it can be rich in meaning and love. meaning and love. meaning and love. Because the question always is when you Because the question always is when you Because the question always is when you care for these families is when that care for these families is when that care for these families is when that patient becomes non-verbal, when you patient becomes non-verbal, when you patient becomes non-verbal, when you become disconnected from them, is the become disconnected from them, is the become disconnected from them, is the question is where are they and how are question is where are they and how are question is where are they and how are they? they? they? And if you're seeing that, And if you're seeing that, And if you're seeing that, that changes how you experience their that changes how you experience their that changes how you experience their loss loss loss and it informs how you grieve. and it informs how you grieve. and it informs how you grieve. You view it very differently. You view it very differently. You view it very differently. >> I've done almost 700 interviews with >> I've done almost 700 interviews with >> I've done almost 700 interviews with some of the most interesting people in some of the most interesting people in some of the most interesting people in the world. And one of the things you the world. And one of the things you the world. And one of the things you learn, which is unexpected, is that learn, which is unexpected, is that learn, which is unexpected, is that vulnerability is the doorway to vulnerability is the doorway to vulnerability is the doorway to connection. And after sitting here for 2 connection. And after sitting here for 2 connection. And after sitting here for 2 3 hours with a guest, I feel a deep 3 hours with a guest, I feel a deep 3 hours with a guest, I feel a deep sense of connection to them. And as they sense of connection to them. And as they sense of connection to them. And as they leave, what I get them to do is to write leave, what I get them to do is to write leave, what I get them to do is to write a question in the diary of a CEO. We've a question in the diary of a CEO. We've a question in the diary of a CEO. We've taken all of the questions from the taken all of the questions from the taken all of the questions from the diary of a CEO. We have put the question diary of a CEO. We have put the question diary of a CEO. We have put the question here on this card with the name of the here on this card with the name of the here on this card with the name of the person that wrote it. So you can sit at person that wrote it. So you can sit at person that wrote it. So you can sit at home, as I do with my fiance, and my home, as I do with my fiance, and my home, as I do with my fiance, and my colleagues at work, and other people in colleagues at work, and other people in colleagues at work, and other people in my life, whenever we get a minute, we my life, whenever we get a minute, we my life, whenever we get a minute, we play the diary of a CEO conversation play the diary of a CEO conversation play the diary of a CEO conversation cards. And it is incredible what cards. And it is incredible what cards. And it is incredible what happens. These are great if you're in a happens. These are great if you're in a happens. These are great if you're in a romantic relationship and you want to romantic relationship and you want to romantic relationship and you want to connect your partner more. These are

connect your partner more. These are connect your partner more. These are also great if you're in a team and you also great if you're in a team and you also great if you're in a team and you want to bond your team together. And I want to bond your team together. And I want to bond your team together. And I have to say they're also great for have to say they're also great for have to say they're also great for families that want to learn more about families that want to learn more about families that want to learn more about each other and that need a good excuse each other and that need a good excuse each other and that need a good excuse to spend some time in a digital world in to spend some time in a digital world in to spend some time in a digital world in the analog environment, connecting the analog environment, connecting the analog environment, connecting human-to-human. It is remarkable what human-to-human. It is remarkable what human-to-human. It is remarkable what the right question at the right time can the right question at the right time can the right question at the right time can do. Go to the diary.com do. Go to the diary.com do. Go to the diary.com and you can get [clears throat] these and you can get [clears throat] these and you can get [clears throat] these conversation cards right now. conversation cards right now. conversation cards right now. There should be a button just down below There should be a button just down below There should be a button just down below here. And if it says subscribe, you're here. And if it says subscribe, you're here. And if it says subscribe, you're already subscribed. If it says already subscribed. If it says already subscribed. If it says subscriber, that means you're not yet. subscriber, that means you're not yet. subscriber, that means you're not yet. And if you're not subscribed, please And if you're not subscribed, please And if you're not subscribed, please could you do us a favor and hit that could you do us a favor and hit that could you do us a favor and hit that button. It helps to show more than you button. It helps to show more than you button. It helps to show more than you know. And according to the algorithm, know. And according to the algorithm, know. And according to the algorithm, you're someone that watches our show, you're someone that watches our show, you're someone that watches our show, but you haven't yet hit that button. but you haven't yet hit that button. but you haven't yet hit that button. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So that was the first point. Love So that was the first point. Love So that was the first point. Love endures after physical loss. endures after physical loss. endures after physical loss. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Number two. >> Hope never fades. It changes. >> Hope never fades. It changes. And it's a very interesting thing. And it's a very interesting thing. And it's a very interesting thing. >> What does that mean, sir? >> What does that mean, sir? >> What does that mean, sir? >> Well, when you're diagnosed with >> Well, when you're diagnosed with >> Well, when you're diagnosed with illness, you hope for cure.

illness, you hope for cure. illness, you hope for cure. And then you know, it's unbelievable And then you know, it's unbelievable And then you know, it's unbelievable how acceptance comes into play. how acceptance comes into play. how acceptance comes into play. And they kind of get through that, and And they kind of get through that, and And they kind of get through that, and then they hope for other things, but the then they hope for other things, but the then they hope for other things, but the hope doesn't change. It just evolves. hope doesn't change. It just evolves. hope doesn't change. It just evolves. It It's It's fundamental, and it becomes It It's It's fundamental, and it becomes It It's It's fundamental, and it becomes hope I want to be comfortable. Hope I hope I want to be comfortable. Hope I hope I want to be comfortable. Hope I want to have time with my family. It want to have time with my family. It want to have time with my family. It becomes all those things that they becomes all those things that they becomes all those things that they become That's all based in hope. So, become That's all based in hope. So, become That's all based in hope. So, hope didn't go away when they find out hope didn't go away when they find out hope didn't go away when they find out they're dying. It just changed shape. they're dying. It just changed shape. they're dying. It just changed shape. >> They just hope for something else. >> They just hope for something else. >> They just hope for something else. >> And then at the end, it's the most >> And then at the end, it's the most >> And then at the end, it's the most beautiful part is it becomes hope for beautiful part is it becomes hope for beautiful part is it becomes hope for others. others. others. And that's what you hear again and And that's what you hear again and And that's what you hear again and again, and it's just this wonderful again, and it's just this wonderful again, and it's just this wonderful story. story. story. Somehow we become less selfish. I found Somehow we become less selfish. I found Somehow we become less selfish. I found this when I was when I tried to get the this when I was when I tried to get the this when I was when I tried to get the study approved. Many says of the The study approved. Many says of the The study approved. Many says of the The university would say, "Oh, you can't You university would say, "Oh, you can't You university would say, "Oh, you can't You know, we want to sterilize the dying. know, we want to sterilize the dying. know, we want to sterilize the dying. They're never going to participate. They're never going to participate. They're never going to participate. They're dying. Why would they want to They're dying. Why would they want to They're dying. Why would they want to waste your time with you?" And actually, waste your time with you?" And actually, waste your time with you?" And actually, they all did. And they even want to be they all did. And they even want to be they all did. And they even want to be filmed.

filmed. filmed. And if you think about it, there's no And if you think about it, there's no And if you think about it, there's no secondary gain. They're never going to secondary gain. They're never going to secondary gain. They're never going to see It's like the old man that plants see It's like the old man that plants see It's like the old man that plants the trees never going to live under the the trees never going to live under the the trees never going to live under the shade, but somebody else does, right? shade, but somebody else does, right? shade, but somebody else does, right? And that's what That's what we get from And that's what That's what we get from And that's what That's what we get from that. It mattered that they contributed. that. It mattered that they contributed. that. It mattered that they contributed. It mattered that they connected. It It mattered that they connected. It It mattered that they connected. It mattered that they were heard, that mattered that they were heard, that mattered that they were heard, that their words mattered. And that's a form their words mattered. And that's a form their words mattered. And that's a form of hope. of hope. of hope. So, they've gone from cure when they So, they've gone from cure when they So, they've gone from cure when they were diagnosed, and they let go of that, were diagnosed, and they let go of that, were diagnosed, and they let go of that, and then they think about things like and then they think about things like and then they think about things like comfort and having time with family, but comfort and having time with family, but comfort and having time with family, but then at the end, what they always hope then at the end, what they always hope then at the end, what they always hope for is other people. for is other people. for is other people. >> Maybe that's the essence of us. >> Maybe that's the essence of us. >> Maybe that's the essence of us. >> Yeah, it's it's a >> Yeah, it's it's a >> Yeah, it's it's a It's a better version It's a better version It's a better version of thinking. I think we live in a of thinking. I think we live in a of thinking. I think we live in a selfish space. selfish space. selfish space. I think we're robbed of that when you I think we're robbed of that when you I think we're robbed of that when you become a parent and whatnot, but I think become a parent and whatnot, but I think become a parent and whatnot, but I think in the end I think it's wonderful that in the end I think it's wonderful that in the end I think it's wonderful that hope doesn't extinguish because cure hope doesn't extinguish because cure hope doesn't extinguish because cure has. has. has. You know. You know. You know. The next is people don't stop living The next is people don't stop living The next is people don't stop living because they're dying. And when we did because they're dying. And when we did because they're dying. And when we did this study looking at dying analogous to this study looking at dying analogous to this study looking at dying analogous to post-traumatic growth, the idea that post-traumatic growth, the idea that post-traumatic growth, the idea that that within a negative adverse event that within a negative adverse event that within a negative adverse event like war, there's positive things like like war, there's positive things like like war, there's positive things like camaraderie. That's what we found with camaraderie. That's what we found with camaraderie. That's what we found with this this this is that people were growing and adopting is that people were growing and adopting is that people were growing and adopting and this was measurable and significant and this was measurable and significant and this was measurable and significant according to post-traumatic growth according to post-traumatic growth according to post-traumatic growth scales right up until the last days of scales right up until the last days of scales right up until the last days of life. And it's paradoxical to the life. And it's paradoxical to the life. And it's paradoxical to the physical state. So physically they're physical state. So physically they're physical state. So physically they're declining, but psychologically and declining, but psychologically and declining, but psychologically and spiritually they're very

spiritually they're very spiritually they're very much alive. much alive. much alive. Number four, the dying leave us Number four, the dying leave us Number four, the dying leave us connected. connected. connected. This became very important and I wrote This became very important and I wrote This became very important and I wrote about this during COVID because so many about this during COVID because so many about this during COVID because so many people were removed from their loved people were removed from their loved people were removed from their loved ones, which was an unbelievable tragedy. ones, which was an unbelievable tragedy. ones, which was an unbelievable tragedy. And what I wrote about was, you know, And what I wrote about was, you know, And what I wrote about was, you know, when they're having these inner when they're having these inner when they're having these inner experiences, actually they're immersed experiences, actually they're immersed experiences, actually they're immersed and very much connected. We don't see and very much connected. We don't see and very much connected. We don't see people have these experiences in people have these experiences in people have these experiences in solitary. We tend to think of solitary. We tend to think of solitary. We tend to think of dying as lonely and a solitary event. dying as lonely and a solitary event. dying as lonely and a solitary event. Yeah. And what happens is in our inner Yeah. And what happens is in our inner Yeah. And what happens is in our inner world we're bringing people into us. world we're bringing people into us. world we're bringing people into us. We're reflecting on life and in these We're reflecting on life and in these We're reflecting on life and in these end-of-life dreams and visions we're end-of-life dreams and visions we're end-of-life dreams and visions we're just immersed with people who we love. just immersed with people who we love. just immersed with people who we love. So even though it looks like they may be So even though it looks like they may be So even though it looks like they may be isolated in intensive care unit when isolated in intensive care unit when isolated in intensive care unit when their eyes are closed, they're also their eyes are closed, they're also their eyes are closed, they're also surrounded in love. But then externally, surrounded in love. But then externally, surrounded in love. But then externally, the dying process brings people the dying process brings people the dying process brings people together. together. together. Lives stop. You know, that son who has a Lives stop. You know, that son who has a Lives stop. You know, that son who has a roaring job in California has to fly roaring job in California has to fly roaring job in California has to fly home to New York. It It tends to stop home to New York. It It tends to stop home to New York. It It tends to stop the world and we focus on what really the world and we focus on what really the world and we focus on what really matters, which is each other. And that's matters, which is each other. And that's matters, which is each other. And that's very clear.

The dying can heal when harmed or The dying can heal when harmed or broken. broken. broken. And this happens in a multitude of ways. And this happens in a multitude of ways. And this happens in a multitude of ways. Um there's that ex- external peace, Um there's that ex- external peace, Um there's that ex- external peace, whether it's making peace with their whether it's making peace with their whether it's making peace with their God, making peace with their family. God, making peace with their family. God, making peace with their family. It's amazing how many families come It's amazing how many families come It's amazing how many families come together. together. together. And what seemed like an issue of And what seemed like an issue of And what seemed like an issue of contention contention contention goes away and dissipates. And they're goes away and dissipates. And they're goes away and dissipates. And they're able to see beyond that. It reshuffles able to see beyond that. It reshuffles able to see beyond that. It reshuffles your priorities in ways that you can't your priorities in ways that you can't your priorities in ways that you can't imagine. The grudge that was held on to imagine. The grudge that was held on to imagine. The grudge that was held on to is let go. So there's this healing is let go. So there's this healing is let go. So there's this healing process that's innate to dying. process that's innate to dying. process that's innate to dying. And I think internally what we see again And I think internally what we see again And I think internally what we see again and again and again, people who are and again and again, people who are and again and again, people who are having negative or distressing dreams having negative or distressing dreams having negative or distressing dreams and visions, they're often centered and visions, they're often centered and visions, they're often centered around harmful things. Um but they're around harmful things. Um but they're around harmful things. Um but they're often addressed within that process so often addressed within that process so often addressed within that process so that somehow, and this is probably the that somehow, and this is probably the that somehow, and this is probably the most remarkable thing of all. They've most remarkable thing of all. They've most remarkable thing of all. They've lived this life with this injury and it lived this life with this injury and it lived this life with this injury and it gets addressed in the end. There's gets addressed in the end. There's gets addressed in the end. There's almost like this final justice. People almost like this final justice. People almost like this final justice. People like Dwayne, you know, who has wrestled like Dwayne, you know, who has wrestled like Dwayne, you know, who has wrestled with these demons his whole life, and with these demons his whole life, and with these demons his whole life, and then at the end he's kind of made whole.

Lesson number six is there's a better Lesson number six is there's a better story than the one we fear. story than the one we fear. story than the one we fear. And the best analogy I can give you is And the best analogy I can give you is And the best analogy I can give you is that famous Dylan Thomas, the famous that famous Dylan Thomas, the famous that famous Dylan Thomas, the famous poet. It's a message to his father who poet. It's a message to his father who poet. It's a message to his father who is who is becoming blind and dying, I is who is becoming blind and dying, I is who is becoming blind and dying, I believe. But he was healthy. And it believe. But he was healthy. And it believe. But he was healthy. And it says, you know, says, you know, says, you know, you basically don't surrender, don't you basically don't surrender, don't you basically don't surrender, don't fight the dying of the light. fight the dying of the light. fight the dying of the light. And most of us in health can relate to And most of us in health can relate to And most of us in health can relate to this idea of the resistance of death, this idea of the resistance of death, this idea of the resistance of death, you know, that you're going to this is you know, that you're going to this is you know, that you're going to this is the enemy to be fought and you're going the enemy to be fought and you're going the enemy to be fought and you're going to muster all your strength and will and to muster all your strength and will and to muster all your strength and will and you're you're to overcome and survive. you're you're to overcome and survive. you're you're to overcome and survive. And that's how it happens to the dying. And that's how it happens to the dying. And that's how it happens to the dying. The dying aren't fighting against The dying aren't fighting against The dying aren't fighting against anything. If anything, they're fighting anything. If anything, they're fighting anything. If anything, they're fighting towards and they're what they're towards and they're what they're towards and they're what they're fighting towards to get back to those fighting towards to get back to those fighting towards to get back to those that they've loved and they've lost. that they've loved and they've lost. that they've loved and they've lost. Horace is a great example. So, Horace is Horace is a great example. So, Horace is Horace is a great example. So, Horace is I believe close to 9 years old and he's I believe close to 9 years old and he's I believe close to 9 years old and he's very near the end of his life. very near the end of his life. very near the end of his life. And I think what's beautiful about And I think what's beautiful about And I think what's beautiful about Horace Horace Horace is that is that is that his inner world experiences are so his inner world experiences are so his inner world experiences are so overwhelming that he actually struggles overwhelming that he actually struggles overwhelming that he actually struggles to find language to find language to find language for what the beauty that he's for what the beauty that he's for what the beauty that he's experiences, the colors that are richer, experiences, the colors that are richer, experiences, the colors that are richer, his wife, the relief he feels in seeing his wife, the relief he feels in seeing his wife, the relief he feels in seeing her. And it really it really highlights her. And it really it really highlights her. And it really it really highlights this notion that they actually aren't this notion that they actually aren't this notion that they actually aren't struggling against anything. If struggling against anything. If struggling against anything. If anything, Horace wants to go to this anything, Horace wants to go to this anything, Horace wants to go to this experience that he's having with his experience that he's having with his experience that he's having with his eyes closed. So, if we could watch eyes closed. So, if we could watch eyes closed. So, if we could watch Horace, that would be great.

Horace, that would be great. Horace, that would be great. >> I should look all this beautiful. >> I should look all this beautiful. >> I should look all this beautiful. She was even She was even She was even feeling pretty. She was Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And maybe the And maybe the And maybe the I'm just maybe I'm just maybe I'm just maybe words weren't necessarily words weren't necessarily words weren't necessarily just looking at each other and just looking at each other and just looking at each other and knew exactly what uh knew exactly what uh knew exactly what uh I was always I was always I was always I was thinking. I was thinking. I was thinking. >> And he's describing a vision he's had >> And he's describing a vision he's had >> And he's describing a vision he's had there. there. there. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> But it's beautiful. And he describes his >> But it's beautiful. And he describes his >> But it's beautiful. And he describes his relief like paying a bill. Like it's relief like paying a bill. Like it's relief like paying a bill. Like it's over. And the greens of the grass are over. And the greens of the grass are over. And the greens of the grass are greener and he's so emoted by it that he greener and he's so emoted by it that he greener and he's so emoted by it that he starts to get very tearful. starts to get very tearful. starts to get very tearful. >> How has interviewing these people as >> How has interviewing these people as >> How has interviewing these people as they're they're they're leaving this world changed how you live leaving this world changed how you live leaving this world changed how you live your life on a day-to-day, week-to-week, your life on a day-to-day, week-to-week, your life on a day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month basis?

month-to-month basis? month-to-month basis? >> Oh. >> Oh. >> Oh. I I think a lot. I think cancer I I think a lot. I think cancer I I think a lot. I think cancer did more to change how I live on a daily did more to change how I live on a daily did more to change how I live on a daily basis, probably. basis, probably. basis, probably. >> You had stage four? >> You had stage four? >> You had stage four? >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> Stage four cancer? >> Stage four cancer? >> Stage four cancer? >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Has it changed your perspective of you >> Has it changed your perspective of you >> Has it changed your perspective of you dying yourself? dying yourself? dying yourself? >> I can tell you that I'm certainly not >> I can tell you that I'm certainly not >> I can tell you that I'm certainly not fearful of the actual process of dying. fearful of the actual process of dying. fearful of the actual process of dying. >> Anymore? >> Anymore? >> Anymore? >> No. >> No. >> No. Yeah, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not. >> Were you before? >> Were you before? >> Were you before? >> Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, >> Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, >> Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's innate to us, right? It's why we it's innate to us, right? It's why we it's innate to us, right? It's why we survive. It's we're meant to survive. It's we're meant to survive. It's we're meant to uh resist. uh resist. uh resist. >> And what in particular has alleviated >> And what in particular has alleviated >> And what in particular has alleviated that fear? that fear? that fear? >> Oh, I think seeing so many patients. I >> Oh, I think seeing so many patients. I >> Oh, I think seeing so many patients. I think having to face it myself, the part think having to face it myself, the part think having to face it myself, the part that possibility that possibility that possibility myself. I had to wrestle that demon. myself. I had to wrestle that demon. myself. I had to wrestle that demon. >> And where does the comfort come from? >> And where does the comfort come from? >> And where does the comfort come from? >> It gets because it becomes less about >> It gets because it becomes less about >> It gets because it becomes less about self. It's very interesting. When you self. It's very interesting. When you self. It's very interesting. When you have a diagnosis like I had, first have a diagnosis like I had, first have a diagnosis like I had, first you're confronted with this you're confronted with this you're confronted with this enormous responsibility, enormous responsibility, enormous responsibility, this reckoning with this reckoning with this reckoning with the lives that you're responsible to.

the lives that you're responsible to. the lives that you're responsible to. And you worry about their wounds and how And you worry about their wounds and how And you worry about their wounds and how they're going to be, particularly if you they're going to be, particularly if you they're going to be, particularly if you have people who are dependent on you. have people who are dependent on you. have people who are dependent on you. So, I went through that's what you first So, I went through that's what you first So, I went through that's what you first are confronted with. And then it changes are confronted with. And then it changes are confronted with. And then it changes you in a lot of ways. you in a lot of ways. you in a lot of ways. >> What specifically has changed? >> What specifically has changed? >> What specifically has changed? >> I was always um restless. I >> I was always um restless. I >> I was always um restless. I could never sit. But cancer brought that could never sit. But cancer brought that could never sit. But cancer brought that to a stop. to a stop. to a stop. Suddenly. Suddenly. Suddenly. And it's a very weird thing because And it's a very weird thing because And it's a very weird thing because there's no period of adaptation. All of there's no period of adaptation. All of there's no period of adaptation. All of the sudden, you can't do. You're used to the sudden, you can't do. You're used to the sudden, you can't do. You're used to going into the world and now the world going into the world and now the world going into the world and now the world has to has to has to come to you. come to you. come to you. And it forces you to do what I really And it forces you to do what I really And it forces you to do what I really could never do, which is kind of be more could never do, which is kind of be more could never do, which is kind of be more more present. I rehabbed basically over more present. I rehabbed basically over more present. I rehabbed basically over many, many months many, many months many, many months um on my farm. um on my farm. um on my farm. And I would gradually walk a little And I would gradually walk a little And I would gradually walk a little farther down the driveway, then in the farther down the driveway, then in the farther down the driveway, then in the barn, barn, barn, the animals walk in field, then woods.

the animals walk in field, then woods. the animals walk in field, then woods. And I can't quite describe this, but And I can't quite describe this, but And I can't quite describe this, but this one day I was there and I'm looking this one day I was there and I'm looking this one day I was there and I'm looking at these willow trees that I had planted at these willow trees that I had planted at these willow trees that I had planted decades earlier. decades earlier. decades earlier. And they were the most beautiful things And they were the most beautiful things And they were the most beautiful things I'd ever seen. I'd ever seen. I'd ever seen. And And And uh you know, the trees hadn't changed. uh you know, the trees hadn't changed. uh you know, the trees hadn't changed. I I I changed. Victor Frankl talks about I I I changed. Victor Frankl talks about I I I changed. Victor Frankl talks about this in the book Man's Search for this in the book Man's Search for this in the book Man's Search for Meaning, right? Meaning, right? Meaning, right? >> He was a Holocaust survivor. >> He was a Holocaust survivor. >> He was a Holocaust survivor. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And >> And >> And somehow he came out of that experience somehow he came out of that experience somehow he came out of that experience and was able to put a lot of definition and was able to put a lot of definition and was able to put a lot of definition around finding meaning. And he describes around finding meaning. And he describes around finding meaning. And he describes a day when a day when a day when one of the prisoners runs out and says, one of the prisoners runs out and says, one of the prisoners runs out and says, "Look at the sunset." And they all come "Look at the sunset." And they all come "Look at the sunset." And they all come out and they're all admiring it despite out and they're all admiring it despite out and they're all admiring it despite their despair and destitute. And the one their despair and destitute. And the one their despair and destitute. And the one says, "Look at what the world could be." says, "Look at what the world could be." says, "Look at what the world could be." And the point is is that beauty And the point is is that beauty And the point is is that beauty isn't about doing or accomplishing, but isn't about doing or accomplishing, but isn't about doing or accomplishing, but that's in it's internalized. It's the that's in it's internalized. It's the that's in it's internalized. It's the finding meaning in the experience. And I finding meaning in the experience. And I finding meaning in the experience. And I never got it, but I got it then when I never got it, but I got it then when I never got it, but I got it then when I got sick.

got sick. got sick. >> And on that point of meaning, which is >> And on that point of meaning, which is >> And on that point of meaning, which is the word on the front of your book here, the word on the front of your book here, the word on the front of your book here, what is the the meaning of life? what is the the meaning of life? what is the the meaning of life? From everything you've experienced and From everything you've experienced and From everything you've experienced and all the death, loss, grief you've seen, all the death, loss, grief you've seen, all the death, loss, grief you've seen, what is the meaning of life? what is the meaning of life? what is the meaning of life? >> I don't know about meaning, but I know >> I don't know about meaning, but I know >> I don't know about meaning, but I know the destination is always love. the destination is always love. the destination is always love. >> [sighs] >> [sighs] >> [sighs] >> And I think that um >> And I think that um >> And I think that um we're meant to get there together. we're meant to get there together. we're meant to get there together. And we're meant to endure struggle And we're meant to endure struggle And we're meant to endure struggle together. together. together. I think that that's just fundamental. We I think that that's just fundamental. We I think that that's just fundamental. We again we're fundamentally interdependent again we're fundamentally interdependent again we're fundamentally interdependent and reliant on one another. and reliant on one another. and reliant on one another. If you think of the best If you think of the best If you think of the best parts of yourself, it's always in the parts of yourself, it's always in the parts of yourself, it's always in the context of love. context of love. context of love. >> You wrote this wonderful book, Death is >> You wrote this wonderful book, Death is >> You wrote this wonderful book, Death is but a Dream, Finding Hope and meaning at but a Dream, Finding Hope and meaning at but a Dream, Finding Hope and meaning at life's end. life's end. life's end. Who is this for? Who is this for? Who is this for? Hm. Hm. Hm. >> Well, again, it was meant for a medical >> Well, again, it was meant for a medical >> Well, again, it was meant for a medical audience, but I think it's anybody who's audience, but I think it's anybody who's audience, but I think it's anybody who's caring for somebody. I think it's caring for somebody. I think it's caring for somebody. I think it's anybody who's wondering about their own anybody who's wondering about their own anybody who's wondering about their own mortality. I think what I find a lot of mortality. I think what I find a lot of mortality. I think what I find a lot of people are benefiting is people who have people are benefiting is people who have people are benefiting is people who have witnessed these experiences, but it's witnessed these experiences, but it's witnessed these experiences, but it's never been explained.

never been explained. never been explained. And I think it it's nice because it And I think it it's nice because it And I think it it's nice because it includes different types of patients. includes different types of patients. includes different types of patients. So, it includes patients who are So, it includes patients who are So, it includes patients who are cognitively different, includes cognitively different, includes cognitively different, includes children. In in each one of those is children. In in each one of those is children. In in each one of those is very unique. very unique. very unique. >> Dr. Christopher, we have a closing >> Dr. Christopher, we have a closing >> Dr. Christopher, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last tradition on this podcast where the last tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest leaves a question for the next guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving guest, not knowing who they're leaving guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for. it for. it for. The question that has been left for you The question that has been left for you The question that has been left for you is a question I have to ask. What is one is a question I have to ask. What is one is a question I have to ask. What is one thing we haven't talked about that we thing we haven't talked about that we thing we haven't talked about that we should have talked about? should have talked about? should have talked about? >> The children. >> The children. >> The children. >> Explain. >> Explain. >> Explain. >> Children die very differently. I >> Children die very differently. I >> Children die very differently. I think that think that think that it's not so much lessons, but they're it's not so much lessons, but they're it's not so much lessons, but they're certainly inspiration, and I think it certainly inspiration, and I think it certainly inspiration, and I think it talks about what's innate in us. talks about what's innate in us. talks about what's innate in us. >> How do children die differently from >> How do children die differently from >> How do children die differently from adults? adults? adults? >> Oh. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> [sighs and gasps] >> [sighs and gasps] >> [sighs and gasps] >> Well, for one, they don't struggle to >> Well, for one, they don't struggle to >> Well, for one, they don't struggle to find acceptance. It's they find acceptance. It's they find acceptance. It's they they're already accepting. they're already accepting. they're already accepting. They don't think in terms of finality of They don't think in terms of finality of They don't think in terms of finality of mortality. mortality. mortality. They just accept the state that is. So, They just accept the state that is. So, They just accept the state that is. So, they don't talk in terms of regrets and they don't talk in terms of regrets and they don't talk in terms of regrets and what ifs. Children have this amazing what ifs. Children have this amazing what ifs. Children have this amazing ability ability ability to to to take care to make themselves whole, to take care to make themselves whole, to take care to make themselves whole, to take care of themselves, to reassure take care of themselves, to reassure take care of themselves, to reassure themselves. So, one of the ways they do themselves. So, one of the ways they do themselves. So, one of the ways they do that is they may not known somebody that is they may not known somebody that is they may not known somebody who's died, so who comes back for them.

who's died, so who comes back for them. who's died, so who comes back for them. And often it's an animal. And often it's an animal. And often it's an animal. And and children don't have the same And and children don't have the same And and children don't have the same distinctions, obviously, between the distinctions, obviously, between the distinctions, obviously, between the human and the animal world. And they human and the animal world. And they human and the animal world. And they come with the same message, which is come with the same message, which is come with the same message, which is that they're loved and that they're not that they're loved and that they're not that they're loved and that they're not alone. alone. alone. The other thing that's just fascinating The other thing that's just fascinating The other thing that's just fascinating is they become very self-informed by is they become very self-informed by is they become very self-informed by these inner experiences. By that, I mean these inner experiences. By that, I mean these inner experiences. By that, I mean they end up understanding where they they end up understanding where they they end up understanding where they are. You don't have to tell them they're are. You don't have to tell them they're are. You don't have to tell them they're dying. They seem to put this together in dying. They seem to put this together in dying. They seem to put this together in remarkable ways. remarkable ways. remarkable ways. And And And far and away far and away far and away the most remarkable thing about children the most remarkable thing about children the most remarkable thing about children is that have this quiet courage and how is that have this quiet courage and how is that have this quiet courage and how they care they care they care for those around them. So they become so for those around them. So they become so for those around them. So they become so utterly selfless. It's almost hard to utterly selfless. It's almost hard to utterly selfless. It's almost hard to describe. There's a young lady who was describe. There's a young lady who was describe. There's a young lady who was taking her pain medicine. She didn't taking her pain medicine. She didn't taking her pain medicine. She didn't want to take her pain medicine because want to take her pain medicine because want to take her pain medicine because she was enjoying being awake and plugged she was enjoying being awake and plugged she was enjoying being awake and plugged in. in. in. But she she was sensitive to what other But she she was sensitive to what other But she she was sensitive to what other people were observing and she didn't people were observing and she didn't people were observing and she didn't want her mother to see her grimace.

want her mother to see her grimace. want her mother to see her grimace. Another one who was from Syria. She knew Another one who was from Syria. She knew Another one who was from Syria. She knew she was dying. Her parents couldn't talk she was dying. Her parents couldn't talk she was dying. Her parents couldn't talk to her about it, but she had already to her about it, but she had already to her about it, but she had already gone ahead on Facebook and said goodbye gone ahead on Facebook and said goodbye gone ahead on Facebook and said goodbye and given life lessons. and given life lessons. and given life lessons. >> Do they have the same visions and >> Do they have the same visions and >> Do they have the same visions and dreams? dreams? dreams? >> Oh yeah, they do it better. >> Oh yeah, they do it better. >> Oh yeah, they do it better. Um and we could show that with Jessica. Um and we could show that with Jessica. Um and we could show that with Jessica. >> So tell me about Jessica. >> So tell me about Jessica. >> So tell me about Jessica. >> Jessica's 13 years old and she's raised >> Jessica's 13 years old and she's raised >> Jessica's 13 years old and she's raised by a single mother. by a single mother. by a single mother. And And And she sees this deceased friend of her she sees this deceased friend of her she sees this deceased friend of her mother's playing with her curtains. mother's playing with her curtains. mother's playing with her curtains. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> And she doesn't want to tell her mom >> And she doesn't want to tell her mom >> And she doesn't want to tell her mom because they didn't want to scare her, because they didn't want to scare her, because they didn't want to scare her, but it made her feel good because she but it made her feel good because she but it made her feel good because she was a good person and again she's not was a good person and again she's not was a good person and again she's not going to be alone. So they tend to look going to be alone. So they tend to look going to be alone. So they tend to look after, despite being children after, despite being children after, despite being children and being robbed of life, they somehow and being robbed of life, they somehow and being robbed of life, they somehow tend to worry about others and try to tend to worry about others and try to tend to worry about others and try to protect others and that's what she does. protect others and that's what she does. protect others and that's what she does. >> I had a feeling that she was just coming >> I had a feeling that she was just coming >> I had a feeling that she was just coming and telling me that you're going to be and telling me that you're going to be and telling me that you're going to be okay. Everything's fine, but she didn't okay. Everything's fine, but she didn't okay. Everything's fine, but she didn't look at me. look at me. look at me. She was just looking, but I had a She was just looking, but I had a She was just looking, but I had a feeling if I called out her name, she feeling if I called out her name, she feeling if I called out her name, she would look at me, but I didn't want to would look at me, but I didn't want to would look at me, but I didn't want to scare my mom. I felt a sign of relief.

scare my mom. I felt a sign of relief. scare my mom. I felt a sign of relief. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And happiness because >> And happiness because >> And happiness because she was a very strong person and I know she was a very strong person and I know she was a very strong person and I know that I'm strong and my mom tells me all that I'm strong and my mom tells me all that I'm strong and my mom tells me all the time that I was I'm like her. the time that I was I'm like her. the time that I was I'm like her. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And you told me that you thought that oh >> And you told me that you thought that oh >> And you told me that you thought that oh mom I saw an angel. mom I saw an angel. mom I saw an angel. >> That's how you said you felt and you >> That's how you said you felt and you >> That's how you said you felt and you said felt peace and then you were able said felt peace and then you were able said felt peace and then you were able to go to sleep. to go to sleep. to go to sleep. >> And then I was able to go to sleep. >> And then I was able to go to sleep. >> And then I was able to go to sleep. >> So it was really comforting. >> So it was really comforting. >> So it was really comforting. >> It was comforting, yeah. >> It was comforting, yeah. >> It was comforting, yeah. >> You weren't afraid? >> You weren't afraid? >> You weren't afraid? >> I wasn't afraid of it at all. >> I wasn't afraid of it at all. >> I wasn't afraid of it at all. >> So children have this way of of >> So children have this way of of >> So children have this way of of self-healing that's remarkable. We have self-healing that's remarkable. We have self-healing that's remarkable. We have another children child on video who she another children child on video who she another children child on video who she creates this castle creates this castle creates this castle and she can feel the warmth of light and she can feel the warmth of light and she can feel the warmth of light coming through the window and all the coming through the window and all the coming through the window and all the animals are well and playing and when animals are well and playing and when animals are well and playing and when asked what the castle meant she said it asked what the castle meant she said it asked what the castle meant she said it meant that there's a safe place. >> Dr. Christopher Kerr >> Dr. Christopher Kerr what a wonderful reminder of what what a wonderful reminder of what what a wonderful reminder of what actually matters. actually matters. actually matters. >> Good.

>> Good. >> Good. >> And also when we [clears throat] think >> And also when we [clears throat] think >> And also when we [clears throat] think about how many of us ourselves fear about how many of us ourselves fear about how many of us ourselves fear our own death it's quite quite high. our own death it's quite quite high. our own death it's quite quite high. It's about half half of people, men and It's about half half of people, men and It's about half half of people, men and women, fear their own death. women, fear their own death. women, fear their own death. But actually I think through your But actually I think through your But actually I think through your research, through the book that you've research, through the book that you've research, through the book that you've written, and through the studies that I written, and through the studies that I written, and through the studies that I have here in front of me, it's certainly have here in front of me, it's certainly have here in front of me, it's certainly made me think a lot less about the fear made me think a lot less about the fear made me think a lot less about the fear of my own death cuz you're right people of my own death cuz you're right people of my own death cuz you're right people think of it as being this sort of think of it as being this sort of think of it as being this sort of painful, prolonged process. painful, prolonged process. painful, prolonged process. [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] But that's not what you report. But that's not what you report. But that's not what you report. >> No, and actually we've looked at that >> No, and actually we've looked at that >> No, and actually we've looked at that and what they actually fear is isolation and what they actually fear is isolation and what they actually fear is isolation >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> and being disconnected. >> and being disconnected. >> and being disconnected. >> And >> And >> And more so than fearing our own death we more so than fearing our own death we more so than fearing our own death we fear losing someone else. fear losing someone else. fear losing someone else. >> Right. I haven't ever come with the >> Right. I haven't ever come with the >> Right. I haven't ever come with the right way to frame it but all of this right way to frame it but all of this right way to frame it but all of this comes back to this better idea that the comes back to this better idea that the comes back to this better idea that the concern is for others than self more concern is for others than self more concern is for others than self more than self. than self. than self. >> And that's a beautiful thing. >> And that's a beautiful thing. >> And that's a beautiful thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Death is but a dream, finding hope and >> Death is but a dream, finding hope and >> Death is but a dream, finding hope and meaning at life's end by Dr. Christopher meaning at life's end by Dr. Christopher meaning at life's end by Dr. Christopher Kerr. I'll link this book below for Kerr. I'll link this book below for Kerr. I'll link this book below for anyone that would like to read it and anyone that would like to read it and anyone that would like to read it and dive deeper into these subjects. They dive deeper into these subjects. They dive deeper into these subjects. They are are are illuminating subjects. Again because illuminating subjects. Again because illuminating subjects. Again because people in those moments of their life people in those moments of their life people in those moments of their life have such a wonderful retrospective have such a wonderful retrospective have such a wonderful retrospective clarity. But maybe it's just clarity.

clarity. But maybe it's just clarity. clarity. But maybe it's just clarity. Yeah, maybe it's just clarity on what Yeah, maybe it's just clarity on what Yeah, maybe it's just clarity on what actually mattered the whole time, as you actually mattered the whole time, as you actually mattered the whole time, as you say. Thank you so much for doing this say. Thank you so much for doing this say. Thank you so much for doing this work because again it's destigmatized a work because again it's destigmatized a work because again it's destigmatized a bunch of bunch of bunch of prevailing myths and ideas about the prevailing myths and ideas about the prevailing myths and ideas about the last stages of our life that probably last stages of our life that probably last stages of our life that probably cause us undue harm cause us undue harm cause us undue harm both to those that are left behind but both to those that are left behind but both to those that are left behind but also to those that pass on and also to those that pass on and also to those that pass on and it does it raises more questions about it does it raises more questions about it does it raises more questions about the nature of consciousness and the nature of consciousness and the nature of consciousness and spirituality and religion and the spirituality and religion and the spirituality and religion and the afterlife and all these things which afterlife and all these things which afterlife and all these things which I guess are are individual questions to answer. are individual questions to answer. >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. YouTube have this new crazy algorithm YouTube have this new crazy algorithm YouTube have this new crazy algorithm where they know exactly what video you where they know exactly what video you where they know exactly what video you would like to watch next based on AI and would like to watch next based on AI and would like to watch next based on AI and all of your viewing behavior and the all of your viewing behavior and the all of your viewing behavior and the algorithm says that this video is the algorithm says that this video is the algorithm says that this video is the perfect video for you. It's different perfect video for you. It's different perfect video for you. It's different for everybody looking right now. Check for everybody looking right now. Check for everybody looking right now. Check this video out. I bet you you might love this video out. I bet you you might love this video out. I bet you you might love it.