Allen Levi’s Golden Friends and the Real-Life Theo [Recorded - Ep. 16]

So many people were telling me, people I So many people were telling me, people I knew, people I didn't know, strangers knew, people I didn't know, strangers knew, people I didn't know, strangers would stop and ask me, "Hey, Oprah, have would stop and ask me, "Hey, Oprah, have would stop and ask me, "Hey, Oprah, have you read Theo Golden? It's your kind of you read Theo Golden? It's your kind of you read Theo Golden? It's your kind of book." book." book." >> So many of you suggested this book. The >> So many of you suggested this book. The >> So many of you suggested this book. The book club [music] selection for February book club [music] selection for February book club [music] selection for February is Theo of Golden. You all have been is Theo of Golden. You all have been is Theo of Golden. You all have been talking [music] about this book and I talking [music] about this book and I talking [music] about this book and I feel like it is a really interesting feel like it is a really interesting feel like it is a really interesting story. This book quietly became what the story. This book quietly became what the story. This book quietly became what the New York Times calls a word [music] of New York Times calls a word [music] of New York Times calls a word [music] of mouth smash hit. The book started off mouth smash hit. The book started off mouth smash hit. The book started off Theo of Golden may be the most unlikely Theo of Golden may be the most unlikely Theo of Golden may be the most unlikely [music] breakout bestseller of all time. [music] breakout bestseller of all time. [music] breakout bestseller of all time. So far, the book has sold around 4 So far, the book has sold around 4 So far, the book has sold around 4 million [music] million [music] million [music] copies and is the highest selling print copies and is the highest selling print copies and is the highest selling print book in America this year. Beginning in book in America this year. Beginning in book in America this year. Beginning in November 2025, it has spent [music] November 2025, it has spent [music] November 2025, it has spent [music] every single week on the New York Times every single week on the New York Times every single week on the New York Times bestseller list. It's been on the Amazon bestseller list. It's been on the Amazon bestseller list. It's been on the Amazon bestseller [music] list almost as long. bestseller [music] list almost as long. bestseller [music] list almost as long. The book has already been translated The book has already been translated The book has already been translated into 42 different languages. There's a into 42 different languages. There's a into 42 different languages. There's a movie agreement in the works with Warner movie agreement in the works with Warner movie agreement in the works with Warner Brothers, and Tom Hanks [music] is Brothers, and Tom Hanks [music] is Brothers, and Tom Hanks [music] is involved. Nobody saw this one coming.

involved. Nobody saw this one coming. involved. Nobody saw this one coming. When Alan Levi self-published Theo in When Alan Levi self-published Theo in When Alan Levi self-published Theo in 2023, it was joining more than 2.6 2023, it was joining more than 2.6 2023, it was joining more than 2.6 million other self-published titles that million other self-published titles that million other self-published titles that year. The odds of anyone other than his year. The odds of anyone other than his year. The odds of anyone other than his friends and family reading it were friends and family reading it were friends and family reading it were minuscule. The average self-published minuscule. The average self-published minuscule. The average self-published book sells around 250 copies over its book sells around 250 copies over its book sells around 250 copies over its lifetime. And even that number is pulled lifetime. And even that number is pulled lifetime. And even that number is pulled high by a couple of outliers. 90% of high by a couple of outliers. 90% of high by a couple of outliers. 90% of self-published [music] books sell less self-published [music] books sell less self-published [music] books sell less than 100 copies. So why did Allan, who than 100 copies. So why did Allan, who than 100 copies. So why did Allan, who was then [music] 67 years old, bother to was then [music] 67 years old, bother to was then [music] 67 years old, bother to join them? Well, he wasn't going to. But join them? Well, he wasn't going to. But join them? Well, he wasn't going to. But he's got this [music] group of friends, he's got this [music] group of friends, he's got this [music] group of friends, guys he's known for years, and they get guys he's known for years, and they get guys he's known for years, and they get together annually to check in [music] together annually to check in [music] together annually to check in [music] with each other. Here's one of them, his with each other. Here's one of them, his with each other. Here's one of them, his buddy Dicky Barlo. buddy Dicky Barlo. buddy Dicky Barlo. >> He said, "Well, I fulfilled one of my >> He said, "Well, I fulfilled one of my >> He said, "Well, I fulfilled one of my goals in life." And I [music] was like, goals in life." And I [music] was like, goals in life." And I [music] was like, "Ben's type A, you know, all these guys "Ben's type A, you know, all these guys "Ben's type A, you know, all these guys are type A. I'm like type Z." [laughter] are type A. I'm like type Z." [laughter] are type A. I'm like type Z." [laughter] And I'm like, "A goal in life? What's And I'm like, "A goal in life? What's And I'm like, "A goal in life? What's that?" You know, and you know, I just that?" You know, and you know, I just that?" You know, and you know, I just remember him going, "Yeah, I finished remember him going, "Yeah, I finished remember him going, "Yeah, I finished this book.

this book. this book. Where [music] is it?" He and he just Where [music] is it?" He and he just Where [music] is it?" He and he just pointed to his desk and he goes, "It's pointed to his desk and he goes, "It's pointed to his desk and he goes, "It's in my desk." And we said, "What are you in my desk." And we said, "What are you in my desk." And we said, "What are you going to do with it?" And we go, he going to do with it?" And we go, he going to do with it?" And we go, he said, "Nothing. I've done what I wanted said, "Nothing. I've done what I wanted said, "Nothing. I've done what I wanted to do." And I do remember us saying, to do." And I do remember us saying, to do." And I do remember us saying, "Can we [music] read it?" And he's like, "Can we [music] read it?" And he's like, "Can we [music] read it?" And he's like, "Sure, I'll send you the PDF of it, but "Sure, I'll send you the PDF of it, but "Sure, I'll send you the PDF of it, but it's not done. You know, all that kind it's not done. You know, all that kind it's not done. You know, all that kind of stuff." of stuff." of stuff." >> Alan sent them the book. Some of them >> Alan sent them the book. Some of them >> Alan sent them the book. Some of them read it on their phone or on their read it on their phone or on their read it on their phone or on their laptop screens. A couple of them printed laptop screens. A couple of them printed laptop screens. A couple of them printed it out and carried it around in a three- it out and carried it around in a three- it out and carried it around in a three- ring binder. There weren't page [music] ring binder. There weren't page [music] ring binder. There weren't page [music] numbers, so they'd check in with each numbers, so they'd check in with each numbers, so they'd check in with each other with, "What scene are you up to?" other with, "What scene are you up to?" other with, "What scene are you up to?" >> One morning, I I just was weeping as I >> One morning, I I just was weeping as I >> One morning, I I just was weeping as I was finishing a chapter and just said, was finishing a chapter and just said, was finishing a chapter and just said, "Allan, this book is so powerful. It's "Allan, this book is so powerful. It's "Allan, this book is so powerful. It's so profound. It's so rich. It's so so profound. It's so rich. It's so so profound. It's so rich. It's so [music] You've got to publish this." And [music] You've got to publish this." And [music] You've got to publish this." And I'm just crying. I can't stop crying. I'm just crying. I can't stop crying. I'm just crying. I can't stop crying. All of us were in the same place, but we All of us were in the same place, but we All of us were in the same place, but we we were we were weeping and [music] we we were we were weeping and [music] we we were we were weeping and [music] we were saying, "Get this out of that were saying, "Get this out of that were saying, "Get this out of that drawer. you you have to do something drawer. you you have to do something drawer. you you have to do something with this. He hemmed and hauled about with this. He hemmed and hauled about with this. He hemmed and hauled about for a while, but eventually he he for a while, but eventually he he for a while, but eventually he he listened.

listened. listened. >> If you've got an original copy of Theo >> If you've got an original copy of Theo >> If you've got an original copy of Theo of Golden, not a Simon and Schustster, of Golden, not a Simon and Schustster, of Golden, not a Simon and Schustster, but one of the self-published copies, but one of the self-published copies, but one of the self-published copies, you can see it on the copyright [music] you can see it on the copyright [music] you can see it on the copyright [music] page. At the bottom, it says in page. At the bottom, it says in page. At the bottom, it says in collaboration with the Mo Consortium. collaboration with the Mo Consortium. collaboration with the Mo Consortium. The Mo is what these guys call The Mo is what these guys call The Mo is what these guys call themselves. I'll explain why in a themselves. I'll explain why in a themselves. I'll explain why in a minute. [music] In some respects, minute. [music] In some respects, minute. [music] In some respects, they're a normal bunch of old friends they're a normal bunch of old friends they're a normal bunch of old friends who love to laugh, hang out, and watch who love to laugh, hang out, and watch who love to laugh, hang out, and watch college football. college football. college football. >> We just happen to have an >> We just happen to have an >> We just happen to have an internationally best-seller author in internationally best-seller author in internationally best-seller author in our group. our group. our group. >> This group also includes a public school >> This group also includes a public school >> This group also includes a public school superintendent, [music] a sports superintendent, [music] a sports superintendent, [music] a sports marketing executive, a retired young marketing executive, a retired young marketing executive, a retired young life director, a hospice chaplain, and a life director, a hospice chaplain, and a life director, a hospice chaplain, and a Dove award-winning musician turned Dove award-winning musician turned Dove award-winning musician turned physicians assistant. These are Alan physicians assistant. These are Alan physicians assistant. These are Alan Levi's best [music] friends and a major Levi's best [music] friends and a major Levi's best [music] friends and a major reason Theo of Golden moved out of a reason Theo of Golden moved out of a reason Theo of Golden moved out of a drawer and into the world. drawer and into the world. drawer and into the world. [music] [music] [music] How does one become friends with Alen How does one become friends with Alen How does one become friends with Alen Levi? What is it like to be in [music] Levi? What is it like to be in [music] Levi? What is it like to be in [music] this group? And how can we grow this group? And how can we grow this group? And how can we grow friendships like this where we see friendships like this where we see friendships like this where we see others, know them deeply, and love them others, know them deeply, and love them others, know them deeply, and love them well as we encourage each other to well as we encourage each other to well as we encourage each other to [music] be more like Christ? To find [music] be more like Christ? To find [music] be more like Christ? To find out, I talked to every one of them. I'm out, I talked to every one of them. I'm out, I talked to every one of them. I'm Sarah Zystra [music] and you're Sarah Zystra [music] and you're Sarah Zystra [music] and you're listening to Recorded.

listening to Recorded. listening to Recorded. [music] Alan Levi grew up in Columbus, Georgia Alan Levi grew up in Columbus, Georgia [music] in the 50s and 60s. His family [music] in the 50s and 60s. His family [music] in the 50s and 60s. His family was close, parents, younger brother, was close, parents, younger brother, was close, parents, younger brother, [music] and three sisters. They went to [music] and three sisters. They went to [music] and three sisters. They went to church, but for a long time didn't church, but for a long time didn't church, but for a long time didn't really understand the gospel. Alan's really understand the gospel. Alan's really understand the gospel. Alan's childhood [music] friends were childhood [music] friends were childhood [music] friends were rambunctious. After school, they would rambunctious. After school, they would rambunctious. After school, they would walk or bike to each other's [music] walk or bike to each other's [music] walk or bike to each other's [music] houses. In one kid's yard, they played houses. In one kid's yard, they played houses. In one kid's yard, they played king of the trampoline, where they threw king of the trampoline, where they threw king of the trampoline, where they threw themselves from one trampoline to themselves from one trampoline to themselves from one trampoline to another. As they got older, their another. As they got older, their another. As they got older, their activities got a little wilder. activities got a little wilder. activities got a little wilder. Drinking, swearing, [music] lying, Drinking, swearing, [music] lying, Drinking, swearing, [music] lying, kissing girls. The whole time, one of kissing girls. The whole time, one of kissing girls. The whole time, one of Allen's closest friends [music] was his Allen's closest friends [music] was his Allen's closest friends [music] was his brother Gary, who was just 13 months brother Gary, who was just 13 months brother Gary, who was just 13 months younger than him.

younger than him. younger than him. >> I think they were in high school. And >> I think they were in high school. And >> I think they were in high school. And Gary was trying to be like Allan [music] Gary was trying to be like Allan [music] Gary was trying to be like Allan [music] and had gotten drunk. And Allan looked and had gotten drunk. And Allan looked and had gotten drunk. And Allan looked over and saw his brother and he he knew over and saw his brother and he he knew over and saw his brother and he he knew that his brother was trying to be like that his brother was trying to be like that his brother was trying to be like him. And that stopped [music] him. And that stopped [music] him. And that stopped [music] everything. That changed Levi's life everything. That changed Levi's life everything. That changed Levi's life because he recognized early on that his because he recognized early on that his because he recognized early on that his life [music] life [music] life [music] affected people. That's Benson Bottoms affected people. That's Benson Bottoms affected people. That's Benson Bottoms who has been calling Allan by his last who has been calling Allan by his last who has been calling Allan by his last name since they met shortly [music] name since they met shortly [music] name since they met shortly [music] after college. Both went to the after college. Both went to the after college. Both went to the University of Georgia. Allan is a little University of Georgia. Allan is a little University of Georgia. Allan is a little older and while he [music] was in older and while he [music] was in older and while he [music] was in college, his life was profoundly college, his life was profoundly college, his life was profoundly changed. He met some people who were changed. He met some people who were changed. He met some people who were radically Christian. This was in the radically Christian. This was in the radically Christian. This was in the mid70s [music] when the Jesus movement mid70s [music] when the Jesus movement mid70s [music] when the Jesus movement was well on its way. I saw the gospel in was well on its way. I saw the gospel in was well on its way. I saw the gospel in them in a way I had not seen before, them in a way I had not seen before, them in a way I had not seen before, [music] Alan told one reporter. [music] Alan told one reporter. [music] Alan told one reporter. Immediately after college, he signed up Immediately after college, he signed up Immediately after college, he signed up for law school at the University of for law school at the University of for law school at the University of Georgia. Even with skipping his homework Georgia. Even with skipping his homework Georgia. Even with skipping his homework once in a while, Alan was smart [music] once in a while, Alan was smart [music] once in a while, Alan was smart [music] and his grades were good. He got in.

and his grades were good. He got in. and his grades were good. He got in. That fall, he started doing music That fall, he started doing music That fall, he started doing music ministry, especially [music] with the ministry, especially [music] with the ministry, especially [music] with the undergrads. This was back in the day undergrads. This was back in the day undergrads. This was back in the day when no stadiums in the country really when no stadiums in the country really when no stadiums in the country really had lights because college football was had lights because college football was had lights because college football was played in the day. played in the day. played in the day. >> That's Ben May [music] who transferred >> That's Ben May [music] who transferred >> That's Ben May [music] who transferred to the University of Georgia as a to the University of Georgia as a to the University of Georgia as a sophomore. sophomore. sophomore. >> Everybody had kickoff usually at 1:00 on >> Everybody had kickoff usually at 1:00 on >> Everybody had kickoff usually at 1:00 on Saturday afternoon. Thus, games end at Saturday afternoon. Thus, games end at Saturday afternoon. Thus, games end at 4:00 and you had the whole evening. And 4:00 and you had the whole evening. And 4:00 and you had the whole evening. And so this gathering [music] would take so this gathering [music] would take so this gathering [music] would take place, you know, 5:36 and people would place, you know, 5:36 and people would place, you know, 5:36 and people would cook out, barbecue, and then kind of get cook out, barbecue, and then kind of get cook out, barbecue, and then kind of get together and just have [music] together and just have [music] together and just have [music] some singing. So that's kind of how I some singing. So that's kind of how I some singing. So that's kind of how I got wind of this place called Pinetops. got wind of this place called Pinetops. got wind of this place called Pinetops. And it was a YMCA camp and it was yeah, And it was a YMCA camp and it was yeah, And it was a YMCA camp and it was yeah, nothing nothing spectacular. Just an old nothing nothing spectacular. Just an old nothing nothing spectacular. Just an old chapel in a big gym. And I went that chapel in a big gym. And I went that chapel in a big gym. And I went that night and I went by myself cuz I had night and I went by myself cuz I had night and I went by myself cuz I had transferred and didn't know a lot of transferred and didn't know a lot of transferred and didn't know a lot of people. but sat in back [music] and you people. but sat in back [music] and you people. but sat in back [music] and you know this guy walks in late and puts know this guy walks in late and puts know this guy walks in late and puts down a guitar right by the pew, steps down a guitar right by the pew, steps down a guitar right by the pew, steps across from me, introduces himself, across from me, introduces himself, across from me, introduces himself, picks out his hand, says, "I'm Alan picks out his hand, says, "I'm Alan picks out his hand, says, "I'm Alan Levine." I said, "Well, I'm Ben Maddie.

Levine." I said, "Well, I'm Ben Maddie. Levine." I said, "Well, I'm Ben Maddie. Nice to meet you." And then about 15 Nice to meet you." And then about 15 Nice to meet you." And then about 15 minutes later, the guy up front says, minutes later, the guy up front says, minutes later, the guy up front says, "Well, [music] I saw Allan slip in, so "Well, [music] I saw Allan slip in, so "Well, [music] I saw Allan slip in, so he's going to come up now and play some he's going to come up now and play some he's going to come up now and play some songs." And he steps up, [music] songs." And he steps up, [music] songs." And he steps up, [music] says, "Excuse me." And he walks up to says, "Excuse me." And he walks up to says, "Excuse me." And he walks up to the front. Before I came over here this the front. Before I came over here this the front. Before I came over here this evening, I went and saw Mama Carrie, who evening, I went and saw Mama Carrie, who evening, I went and saw Mama Carrie, who if y'all don't already know was a cook if y'all don't already know was a cook if y'all don't already know was a cook at Snelling Hall for gosh, it was a long at Snelling Hall for gosh, it was a long at Snelling Hall for gosh, it was a long time, something like 40 years. She just time, something like 40 years. She just time, something like 40 years. She just retired and I went out to see her and retired and I went out to see her and retired and I went out to see her and she didn't have time to put a wig on or she didn't have time to put a wig on or she didn't have time to put a wig on or a teeth in. [music] a teeth in. [music] a teeth in. [music] But my we had a good time. But my we had a good time. But my we had a good time. [music] and he called [singing and music] and he called [singing and music] John John John >> to quote an overused phrase. He had me >> to quote an overused phrase. He had me >> to quote an overused phrase. He had me at the first note uh in the first lyric.

at the first note uh in the first lyric. at the first note uh in the first lyric. The way he wrote, the way he saw the The way he wrote, the way he saw the The way he wrote, the way he saw the world [music] and and still does. for a world [music] and and still does. for a world [music] and and still does. for a one-year believer. I'd been a Christian one-year believer. I'd been a Christian one-year believer. I'd been a Christian for a year. There were soundtracks in my for a year. There were soundtracks in my for a year. There were soundtracks in my life of of influences. And not only was life of of influences. And not only was life of of influences. And not only was he one, but he also became one of my he one, but he also became one of my he one, but he also became one of my closest friends. closest friends. closest friends. >> Another of Ben's closest friends is >> Another of Ben's closest friends is >> Another of Ben's closest friends is named Dicky Barlo. You have got to meet named Dicky Barlo. You have got to meet named Dicky Barlo. You have got to meet this guy who plays at Pinetops, Ben told this guy who plays at Pinetops, Ben told this guy who plays at Pinetops, Ben told him. him. him. >> I played guitar at the time, too. >> I played guitar at the time, too. >> I played guitar at the time, too. [music] And so, well, to say that I [music] And so, well, to say that I [music] And so, well, to say that I played guitar and compare it to what played guitar and compare it to what played guitar and compare it to what Allan did. I was the guy who played Allan did. I was the guy who played Allan did. I was the guy who played guitar cuz maybe girls would like me guitar cuz maybe girls would like me guitar cuz maybe girls would like me more. more. more. >> Allan played guitar because he was >> Allan played guitar because he was >> Allan played guitar because he was really good at it and wrote just really good at it and wrote just really good at it and wrote just beautiful songs and they'd capture your beautiful songs and they'd capture your beautiful songs and they'd capture your heart. heart. heart. >> At this point, I'm wondering what is it >> At this point, I'm wondering what is it >> At this point, I'm wondering what is it about these songs? Why do these guys about these songs? Why do these guys about these songs? Why do these guys love them so much? I met him [music and singing] in a I met him [music and singing] in a church one night in the southern part church one night in the southern part church one night in the southern part [music] of France.

A smile almost [music and singing] A smile almost [music and singing] angelic angelic angelic and a look of innocence. and a look of innocence. and a look of innocence. [music] [music] [music] >> Allan's music is folksy, acoustical, and >> Allan's music is folksy, acoustical, and >> Allan's music is folksy, acoustical, and nearly always telling a story. The thing nearly always telling a story. The thing nearly always telling a story. The thing about Allan and I guess if I had to sum about Allan and I guess if I had to sum about Allan and I guess if I had to sum it up, the thing that he exudes is to it up, the thing that he exudes is to it up, the thing that he exudes is to pay attention. [music] Um, and that is pay attention. [music] Um, and that is pay attention. [music] Um, and that is what if you listen to his music, they what if you listen to his music, they what if you listen to his music, they all encourage and are all snippets of all encourage and are all snippets of all encourage and are all snippets of him seeing something like a homeless him seeing something like a homeless him seeing something like a homeless lady handing out bird feed to a group of lady handing out bird feed to a group of lady handing out bird feed to a group of [music] pigeons that he drove past her [music] pigeons that he drove past her [music] pigeons that he drove past her every day on his way to the law office. every day on his way to the law office. every day on his way to the law office. And he just saw that and it turned into And he just saw that and it turned into And he just saw that and it turned into a song about serving, giving yourself to a song about serving, giving yourself to a song about serving, giving yourself to the weak and the small, but those who the weak and the small, but those who the weak and the small, but those who can't pay you back. It was just soaked can't pay you back. It was just soaked can't pay you back. It was just soaked in metaphor. A little girl learning to in metaphor. A little girl learning to in metaphor. A little girl learning to ride a bike in a parking lot with her ride a bike in a parking lot with her ride a bike in a parking lot with her dad turned into a song about trusting dad turned into a song about trusting dad turned into a song about trusting the one who is running at our side. The the one who is running at our side. The the one who is running at our side. The overtones overtones overtones just help me to say, "These miracles are just help me to say, "These miracles are just help me to say, "These miracles are happening around me every day." But the happening around me every day." But the happening around me every day." But the question is, am I slowing enough? Am I question is, am I slowing enough? Am I question is, am I slowing enough? Am I paying enough attention to see them?

[music] [music] [singing] What Allan's music was telling these What Allan's music was telling these guys was that he was serious about guys was that he was serious about guys was that he was serious about following Christ and that he wanted to following Christ and that he wanted to following Christ and that he wanted to do it deeply [music] in every ordinary do it deeply [music] in every ordinary do it deeply [music] in every ordinary moment of his life. During the few years moment of his life. During the few years moment of his life. During the few years Allan was in law school, writing new Allan was in law school, writing new Allan was in law school, writing new songs each week for Pinetops. The songs each week for Pinetops. The songs each week for Pinetops. The gathering grew from about a dozen people gathering grew from about a dozen people gathering grew from about a dozen people to around [music] 500. Ben May invited a to around [music] 500. Ben May invited a to around [music] 500. Ben May invited a lot of them, including his friend Benson lot of them, including his friend Benson lot of them, including his friend Benson [music] Bottoms. Although Benson was [music] Bottoms. Although Benson was [music] Bottoms. Although Benson was intellectually curious about intellectually curious about intellectually curious about Christianity, [music] that kind of life Christianity, [music] that kind of life Christianity, [music] that kind of life did not sound compelling to him. did not sound compelling to him. did not sound compelling to him. >> And I'm thinking, are you kidding me? >> And I'm thinking, are you kidding me? >> And I'm thinking, are you kidding me? The night after a game with my date, The night after a game with my date, The night after a game with my date, [music] I'm going to go listen to some [music] I'm going to go listen to some [music] I'm going to go listen to some Christian play a guitar. I didn't until Christian play a guitar. I didn't until Christian play a guitar. I didn't until Ben May um gave me a cassette tape. This Ben May um gave me a cassette tape. This Ben May um gave me a cassette tape. This would have been 1983 would have been 1983 would have been 1983 or so. I listened to the very first song or so. I listened to the very first song or so. I listened to the very first song and it was called Mama Carrie [music] and it was called Mama Carrie [music] and it was called Mama Carrie [music] and instantly I mean instantly I just and instantly I mean instantly I just and instantly I mean instantly I just said oh my goodness.

said oh my goodness. said oh my goodness. >> Allan's music and stories showcased a >> Allan's music and stories showcased a >> Allan's music and stories showcased a gentle, attentive, intentional communal gentle, attentive, intentional communal gentle, attentive, intentional communal Christianity. That was the tipping point Christianity. That was the tipping point Christianity. That was the tipping point for [music] Benson and he became a for [music] Benson and he became a for [music] Benson and he became a Christian. As soon as he could, he asked Christian. As soon as he could, he asked Christian. As soon as he could, he asked Allan to come and play a concert in his Allan to come and play a concert in his Allan to come and play a concert in his area. By this point, Allan had graduated area. By this point, Allan had graduated area. By this point, Allan had graduated from law school. [music] He was a young from law school. [music] He was a young from law school. [music] He was a young attorney working and living back in his attorney working and living back in his attorney working and living back in his hometown of Columbus. Bart Scarboro was hometown of Columbus. Bart Scarboro was hometown of Columbus. Bart Scarboro was in a local high school then. in a local high school then. in a local high school then. >> I was really involved with Young Life >> I was really involved with Young Life >> I was really involved with Young Life and um my Young Life leader was a friend and um my Young Life leader was a friend and um my Young Life leader was a friend of Allen's. So my Young Life leader of Allen's. So my Young Life leader of Allen's. So my Young Life leader would sneak into the back of Allen's would sneak into the back of Allen's would sneak into the back of Allen's house early in the morning before school house early in the morning before school house early in the morning before school and have Bible study because it was a and have Bible study because it was a and have Bible study because it was a good central location for all these good central location for all these good central location for all these guys. Over the next 20 years, Ben, guys. Over the next 20 years, Ben, guys. Over the next 20 years, Ben, Dicki, Benson, Bart, [music] and Allan Dicki, Benson, Bart, [music] and Allan Dicki, Benson, Bart, [music] and Allan ran into each other over and over and ran into each other over and over and ran into each other over and over and over again in Athens, where the over again in Athens, where the over again in Athens, where the University of Georgia is, [music] and in University of Georgia is, [music] and in University of Georgia is, [music] and in Columbus, where a lot of them were from. Columbus, where a lot of them were from. Columbus, where a lot of them were from. It was a tangle of relationships. Benson It was a tangle of relationships. Benson It was a tangle of relationships. Benson and Ben lived near each other after and Ben lived near each other after and Ben lived near each other after college. When Bart moved to Athens to go college. When Bart moved to Athens to go college. When Bart moved to Athens to go to school, he met Ben, who was working to school, he met Ben, who was working to school, he met Ben, who was working for the college. And if you're friends for the college. And if you're friends for the college. And if you're friends with Ben long enough, you also meet with Ben long enough, you also meet with Ben long enough, you also meet Dicki. Alan was singing for Young Life Dicki. Alan was singing for Young Life Dicki. Alan was singing for Young Life events at the same time Dicki was events at the same time Dicki was events at the same time Dicki was speaking at Young Life events. At the speaking at Young Life events. At the speaking at Young Life events. At the same time, Bart was on staff there.

same time, Bart was on staff there. same time, Bart was on staff there. [music] [music] [music] They all had a few important things in They all had a few important things in They all had a few important things in common. They cheered for the University common. They cheered for the University common. They cheered for the University of Georgia Bulldogs. They were of Georgia Bulldogs. They were of Georgia Bulldogs. They were Christians. and they wanted to live a Christians. and they wanted to live a Christians. and they wanted to live a life like the one Allan sang about, one life like the one Allan sang about, one life like the one Allan sang about, one rich with kindness [music] and laughter rich with kindness [music] and laughter rich with kindness [music] and laughter and peace. These were the days before and peace. These were the days before and peace. These were the days before smartphones, so they kept up with each smartphones, so they kept up with each smartphones, so they kept up with each other the old-fashioned way. other the old-fashioned way. other the old-fashioned way. >> Levi was a letter writer. It's very >> Levi was a letter writer. It's very >> Levi was a letter writer. It's very pastoral. He would hear something from pastoral. He would hear something from pastoral. He would hear something from me or hear something about me and few me or hear something about me and few me or hear something about me and few days later I get a letter in the mail. days later I get a letter in the mail. days later I get a letter in the mail. Um, and phone calls. Um, and phone calls. Um, and phone calls. >> Allan wrote letters while he worked for >> Allan wrote letters while he worked for >> Allan wrote letters while he worked for a decade as an [music] attorney. while a decade as an [music] attorney. while a decade as an [music] attorney. while he spent two years in Scotland earning a he spent two years in Scotland earning a he spent two years in Scotland earning a master's in Scottish fiction and while master's in Scottish fiction and while master's in Scottish fiction and while he made a significant career shift from he made a significant career shift from he made a significant career shift from law to music [music] [music] if you look out [singing] the window if you look out [singing] the window if you look out [singing] the window baby I believe you'll see baby I believe you'll see baby I believe you'll see there's a sunny day there's a sunny day there's a sunny day [singing and music] [singing and music] [singing and music] >> one day about four years into Alan's >> one day about four years into Alan's >> one day about four years into Alan's second career as a full-time musician second career as a full-time musician second career as a full-time musician Bart asked asked him to play for a young Bart asked asked him to play for a young Bart asked asked him to play for a young life leaders retreat.

life leaders retreat. life leaders retreat. >> He sang two songs. One was called Camp >> He sang two songs. One was called Camp >> He sang two songs. One was called Camp Uncle Allen and it was this song about Uncle Allen and it was this song about Uncle Allen and it was this song about how he would u he had made this just how he would u he had made this just how he would u he had made this just magic of surprise weekend and he had his magic of surprise weekend and he had his magic of surprise weekend and he had his nieces and he had uh had all kind of nieces and he had uh had all kind of nieces and he had uh had all kind of fancy food and he had rented a fancy food and he had rented a fancy food and he had rented a convertible they could drive around in convertible they could drive around in convertible they could drive around in and he he rented somebody to follow them and he he rented somebody to follow them and he he rented somebody to follow them and video it. But also on the weekend, and video it. But also on the weekend, and video it. But also on the weekend, he sang a song called My Own Brother. he sang a song called My Own Brother. he sang a song called My Own Brother. And it was about this one particular And it was about this one particular And it was about this one particular story, but it made you think about story, but it made you think about story, but it made you think about friendship. And so when we were going friendship. And so when we were going friendship. And so when we were going home, I said, "K Allan, we need to have home, I said, "K Allan, we need to have home, I said, "K Allan, we need to have a camp Allen for the guys." a camp Allen for the guys." a camp Allen for the guys." And somehow we came up with this camp my And somehow we came up with this camp my And somehow we came up with this camp my own brother idea. And then it became the own brother idea. And then it became the own brother idea. And then it became the my own brothers. my own brothers. my own brothers. >> And then it became Mob for short. Bart >> And then it became Mob for short. Bart >> And then it became Mob for short. Bart is 14 years younger than Allan and 10 is 14 years younger than Allan and 10 is 14 years younger than Allan and 10 years younger than the other guys. And years younger than the other guys. And years younger than the other guys. And >> I was thinking these are three of my >> I was thinking these are three of my >> I was thinking these are three of my favorite people I look up to more than favorite people I look up to more than favorite people I look up to more than anybody else and I'm asking to get start anybody else and I'm asking to get start anybody else and I'm asking to get start a group with them. Feels kind of foolish a group with them. Feels kind of foolish a group with them. Feels kind of foolish or silly or something.

or silly or something. or silly or something. >> Of course, Levi said, "Uh, absolutely. >> Of course, Levi said, "Uh, absolutely. >> Of course, Levi said, "Uh, absolutely. Let's meet at the farm." [music] Let's meet at the farm." [music] Let's meet at the farm." [music] And Bart's more of an organized schedule And Bart's more of an organized schedule And Bart's more of an organized schedule guy. So, I think he said, "Okay, let's guy. So, I think he said, "Okay, let's guy. So, I think he said, "Okay, let's do it. Let's do it in this month." And do it. Let's do it in this month." And do it. Let's do it in this month." And then it was born. Alan lives on 700 acres that his [music] Alan lives on 700 acres that his [music] dad bought back in 1968. dad bought back in 1968. dad bought back in 1968. It's near Hamilton, a town of about It's near Hamilton, a town of about It's near Hamilton, a town of about 2,000. Dicki remembers their first 2,000. Dicki remembers their first 2,000. Dicki remembers their first [music] meeting there. [music] meeting there. [music] meeting there. >> Alan said, "I'll do the first meal. >> Alan said, "I'll do the first meal. >> Alan said, "I'll do the first meal. We'll I'll make some chili." It was the We'll I'll make some chili." It was the We'll I'll make some chili." It was the absolute worst chili we'd ever had in absolute worst chili we'd ever had in absolute worst chili we'd ever had in our life. and Allan didn't know how to our life. and Allan didn't know how to our life. and Allan didn't know how to cook. It was like, "Oh my goodness, I cook. It was like, "Oh my goodness, I cook. It was like, "Oh my goodness, I can't even take another bite [music] of can't even take another bite [music] of can't even take another bite [music] of this." And so, you know, we started this." And so, you know, we started this." And so, you know, we started ribbon on Allan and then it [music] just ribbon on Allan and then it [music] just ribbon on Allan and then it [music] just became that 25 years about when this became that 25 years about when this became that 25 years about when this happened and when this happened. happened and when this happened. happened and when this happened. >> These are all guys who love deep >> These are all guys who love deep >> These are all guys who love deep questions [music] and the weekend questions [music] and the weekend questions [music] and the weekend naturally formed around that.

naturally formed around that. naturally formed around that. >> We said, "Hey, all right. Let's let's do >> We said, "Hey, all right. Let's let's do >> We said, "Hey, all right. Let's let's do this. Ben, [music] tell us what's going this. Ben, [music] tell us what's going this. Ben, [music] tell us what's going on with you." on with you." on with you." >> And then we get to ask questions. And so >> And then we get to ask questions. And so >> And then we get to ask questions. And so when we come together, it's like be when we come together, it's like be when we come together, it's like be ready to tell your story, [music] where ready to tell your story, [music] where ready to tell your story, [music] where you are spiritually, what's going on you are spiritually, what's going on you are spiritually, what's going on with your life, and major moments. with your life, and major moments. with your life, and major moments. >> These [music] weren't just questions >> These [music] weren't just questions >> These [music] weren't just questions like, "What happened next?" or "Do you like, "What happened next?" or "Do you like, "What happened next?" or "Do you like your new boss?" They also included, like your new boss?" They also included, like your new boss?" They also included, "Who [snorts] has God [music] been to "Who [snorts] has God [music] been to "Who [snorts] has God [music] been to you in the last year of your life?" "How you in the last year of your life?" "How you in the last year of your life?" "How is Christ redeeming your suffering? is Christ redeeming your suffering? is Christ redeeming your suffering? [music] And how has God enriched your [music] And how has God enriched your [music] And how has God enriched your life through joy and through sorrow?" life through joy and through sorrow?" life through joy and through sorrow?" After three days, [music] the guys had After three days, [music] the guys had After three days, [music] the guys had laughed, cried, hiked, fished, and gone laughed, cried, hiked, fished, and gone laughed, cried, hiked, fished, and gone out to eat to escape Alen's [music] out to eat to escape Alen's [music] out to eat to escape Alen's [music] cooking. They already knew they wanted cooking. They already knew they wanted cooking. They already knew they wanted to come back again the next year. And so to come back again the next year. And so to come back again the next year. And so they did, and every year was just as they did, and every year was just as they did, and every year was just as good as the first. good as the first. good as the first. >> I think we all have this intensity >> I think we all have this intensity >> I think we all have this intensity [music] for depth of relationship. And I [music] for depth of relationship. And I [music] for depth of relationship. And I think we had all tasted it at different think we had all tasted it at different think we had all tasted it at different places. when you have a really quality places. when you have a really quality places. when you have a really quality relationship with somebody, um, they relationship with somebody, um, they relationship with somebody, um, they bring out the best in you. There is bring out the best in you. There is bring out the best in you. There is sometimes this trepidation like I don't sometimes this trepidation like I don't sometimes this trepidation like I don't want to tell them this and there's been want to tell them this and there's been want to tell them this and there's been plenty of tears shed and I'm sure there plenty of tears shed and I'm sure there plenty of tears shed and I'm sure there have been feelings that have been hurt have been feelings that have been hurt have been feelings that have been hurt [music] and we get mad.

[music] and we get mad. [music] and we get mad. >> There is also a lot of laughing >> There is also a lot of laughing >> There is also a lot of laughing >> and each one has their own distinct >> and each one has their own distinct >> and each one has their own distinct laugh. [music] laugh. [music] laugh. [music] Dicky Barlos is just so loud. Ben's is Dicky Barlos is just so loud. Ben's is Dicky Barlos is just so loud. Ben's is more of a chuckle [music] and Barts sort more of a chuckle [music] and Barts sort more of a chuckle [music] and Barts sort of does his of does his of does his and then Levi is always sort of and then Levi is always sort of and then Levi is always sort of suppressed. He's got that big grin and suppressed. He's got that big grin and suppressed. He's got that big grin and shaking his head. shaking his head. shaking his head. But if you walk closely with anyone for But if you walk closely with anyone for But if you walk closely with anyone for a period of time, there is going to be a period of time, there is going to be a period of time, there is going to be pain. About 12 years in, Allen's little pain. About 12 years in, Allen's little pain. About 12 years in, Allen's little brother Gary was diagnosed with a brain brother Gary was diagnosed with a brain brother Gary was diagnosed with a brain tumor. I [music] wish you could have tumor. I [music] wish you could have tumor. I [music] wish you could have seen him and his brother together. Gary seen him and his brother together. Gary seen him and his brother together. Gary [music] was so intense and if you could [music] was so intense and if you could [music] was so intense and if you could just be with him, you would see Levi. If just be with him, you would see Levi. If just be with him, you would see Levi. If he didn't outright [music] laugh, he he didn't outright [music] laugh, he he didn't outright [music] laugh, he smiled the whole time because Gary was smiled the whole time because Gary was smiled the whole time because Gary was hilarious. But [music] part of his hilarious. But [music] part of his hilarious. But [music] part of his hilarity was his intensess, hilarity was his intensess, hilarity was his intensess, his strong opinions and thoughts and his strong opinions and thoughts and his strong opinions and thoughts and >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> uh Levi just it just made him so happy >> uh Levi just it just made him so happy >> uh Levi just it just made him so happy to hear Gary [music] talk about all this to hear Gary [music] talk about all this to hear Gary [music] talk about all this stuff.

stuff. stuff. >> After the diagnosis, Allan and Gary, who >> After the diagnosis, Allan and Gary, who >> After the diagnosis, Allan and Gary, who were [music] both bachelors, moved into were [music] both bachelors, moved into were [music] both bachelors, moved into their parents' house. They shared a room their parents' house. They shared a room their parents' house. They shared a room with twin beds close enough [music] to with twin beds close enough [music] to with twin beds close enough [music] to reach out your hand, grab your brothers, reach out your hand, grab your brothers, reach out your hand, grab your brothers, and pray. When Gary died, [music] I and pray. When Gary died, [music] I and pray. When Gary died, [music] I remember him sitting on a swinging bench remember him sitting on a swinging bench remember him sitting on a swinging bench and he couldn't talk for a, you know, and he couldn't talk for a, you know, and he couldn't talk for a, you know, [music] a long time cuz every time he [music] a long time cuz every time he [music] a long time cuz every time he tried, he started crying. And he can tried, he started crying. And he can tried, he started crying. And he can grieve that way openly [music] without grieve that way openly [music] without grieve that way openly [music] without shame or fear or embarrassment shame or fear or embarrassment shame or fear or embarrassment because it's [music] safe with us and because it's [music] safe with us and because it's [music] safe with us and not with anybody else who's going to not with anybody else who's going to not with anybody else who's going to feel uncomfortable or awkward because feel uncomfortable or awkward because feel uncomfortable or awkward because he's doing that. The guys kept meeting. he's doing that. The guys kept meeting. he's doing that. The guys kept meeting. They heard [music] about each other's They heard [music] about each other's They heard [music] about each other's health scares, marriage struggles, and health scares, marriage struggles, and health scares, marriage struggles, and job changes. And then [music] around job changes. And then [music] around job changes. And then [music] around 2019, this close-knit group of guys 2019, this close-knit group of guys 2019, this close-knit group of guys invited somebody else into their circle. Bibo Norman was in sixth grade in Bibo Norman was in sixth grade in Columbus when Alan Levi came and played Columbus when Alan Levi came and played Columbus when Alan Levi came and played guitar for [music] his youth group. Bibo guitar for [music] his youth group. Bibo guitar for [music] his youth group. Bibo had never seen anybody do that before had never seen anybody do that before had never seen anybody do that before and he was [music] intrigued. 19 years and he was [music] intrigued. 19 years and he was [music] intrigued. 19 years later, he would win his first Dev Award.

later, he would win his first Dev Award. later, he would win his first Dev Award. >> I was starting music full-time as >> I was starting music full-time as >> I was starting music full-time as [music] a as a 21-year-old and he was [music] a as a 21-year-old and he was [music] a as a 21-year-old and he was starting music full-time as a nearly starting music full-time as a nearly starting music full-time as a nearly 40year-old. you know, like it was one of 40year-old. you know, like it was one of 40year-old. you know, like it was one of those things and we just kind of those things and we just kind of those things and we just kind of connected and from then on maintained a connected and from then on maintained a connected and from then on maintained a pretty close relationship [music] pretty pretty close relationship [music] pretty pretty close relationship [music] pretty consistently. consistently. consistently. >> By 2019, Bibo had retired from music and >> By 2019, Bibo had retired from music and >> By 2019, Bibo had retired from music and was earning a master's degree in was earning a master's degree in was earning a master's degree in medicine. Somehow, he ended [music] up medicine. Somehow, he ended [music] up medicine. Somehow, he ended [music] up on the Mo text group chat. on the Mo text group chat. on the Mo text group chat. >> The reason I ended up on that text >> The reason I ended up on that text >> The reason I ended up on that text thread is that we all watched University thread is that we all watched University thread is that we all watched University of Georgia football. We're huge Georgia of Georgia football. We're huge Georgia of Georgia football. We're huge Georgia fans and so [music] we would sax around fans and so [music] we would sax around fans and so [music] we would sax around Georgia games and then we just talked Georgia games and then we just talked Georgia games and then we just talked pretty consistently [music] and they uh pretty consistently [music] and they uh pretty consistently [music] and they uh probably eight or nine years ago invited probably eight or nine years ago invited probably eight or nine years ago invited me to start coming into this group with me to start coming into this group with me to start coming into this group with them. them. them. >> I asked if it was hard [music] to walk >> I asked if it was hard [music] to walk >> I asked if it was hard [music] to walk into a group that was already so close. into a group that was already so close. into a group that was already so close. No, because they are the type of people No, because they are the type of people No, because they are the type of people that you don't feel [music] threatened that you don't feel [music] threatened that you don't feel [music] threatened by in opening up and being in by in opening up and being in by in opening up and being in relationship. And they led by example. relationship. And they led by example. relationship. And they led by example. They didn't tell me to walk in and tell They didn't tell me to walk in and tell They didn't tell me to walk in and tell my story first. You know, they kind of my story first. You know, they kind of my story first. You know, they kind of showed me the ropes and [music] and showed me the ropes and [music] and showed me the ropes and [music] and invited me into it. And so did not feel invited me into it. And so did not feel invited me into it. And so did not feel intimidating to me. Um, and [music] it intimidating to me. Um, and [music] it intimidating to me. Um, and [music] it was it was a it was a sweet thing pretty was it was a it was a sweet thing pretty was it was a it was a sweet thing pretty immediately.

[music] [music] >> CS Lewis once wrote, "In each of my >> CS Lewis once wrote, "In each of my >> CS Lewis once wrote, "In each of my friends, there is something that only friends, there is something that only friends, there is something that only some other friend [music] can fully some other friend [music] can fully some other friend [music] can fully bring out. By myself, I am not large bring out. By myself, I am not large bring out. By myself, I am not large enough to call the whole man into enough to call the whole man into enough to call the whole man into activity. [music] I want other lights activity. [music] I want other lights activity. [music] I want other lights than my own to show off all his facets. than my own to show off all his facets. than my own to show off all his facets. Hence, true friendship is the least Hence, true friendship is the least Hence, true friendship is the least jealous of loves. Two friends delight to jealous of loves. Two friends delight to jealous of loves. Two friends delight to be joined by a third and three by a be joined by a third and three by a be joined by a third and three by a fourth [music] fourth [music] fourth [music] if only the newcomer is qualified to if only the newcomer is qualified to if only the newcomer is qualified to become a real friend. I don't know if it become a real friend. I don't know if it become a real friend. I don't know if it was the addition of Bibo [music] was the addition of Bibo [music] was the addition of Bibo [music] or the length of time the men had been or the length of time the men had been or the length of time the men had been meeting or even the drama of CO which meeting or even the drama of CO which meeting or even the drama of CO which quickly followed but something [music] quickly followed but something [music] quickly followed but something [music] began to shift in the group around 2020 began to shift in the group around 2020 began to shift in the group around 2020 >> probably a little bit before co co >> probably a little bit before co co >> probably a little bit before co co [music] it deepened somehow I don't [music] it deepened somehow I don't [music] it deepened somehow I don't really know why I think we just started really know why I think we just started really know why I think we just started sharing became more transparent with one sharing became more transparent with one sharing became more transparent with one another and you know when [music] you another and you know when [music] you another and you know when [music] you taste the safety of that and the beauty taste the safety of that and the beauty taste the safety of that and the beauty of being loved by someone [music] that of being loved by someone [music] that of being loved by someone [music] that doesn't have to love you give a little doesn't have to love you give a little doesn't have to love you give a little more. You you taste the richness, you more. You you taste the richness, you more. You you taste the richness, you know, of relationship.

know, of relationship. know, of relationship. >> Around this time, [music] Ben climbed >> Around this time, [music] Ben climbed >> Around this time, [music] Ben climbed out of a window onto his roof with a out of a window onto his roof with a out of a window onto his roof with a leaf blower strapped to his back. His leaf blower strapped to his back. His leaf blower strapped to his back. His goal was to blow the leaves off, but goal was to blow the leaves off, but goal was to blow the leaves off, but when he slipped, he fell about 20 ft when he slipped, he fell about 20 ft when he slipped, he fell about 20 ft before he hit the ground. before he hit the ground. before he hit the ground. >> When they called me and told me Ben was >> When they called me and told me Ben was >> When they called me and told me Ben was in the hospital, I rushed to the in the hospital, I rushed to the in the hospital, I rushed to the hospital. We go into the trauma. we're hospital. We go into the trauma. we're hospital. We go into the trauma. we're going to see him for the first time. And going to see him for the first time. And going to see him for the first time. And there was another guy that was with us there was another guy that was with us there was another guy that was with us and he said, [music] "Hey, I didn't know and he said, [music] "Hey, I didn't know and he said, [music] "Hey, I didn't know you and Ben were friends." And I just you and Ben were friends." And I just you and Ben were friends." And I just remember saying, "We're not." And he remember saying, "We're not." And he remember saying, "We're not." And he goes, [music] "Really? What?" I said, goes, [music] "Really? What?" I said, goes, [music] "Really? What?" I said, "Yeah, he's not a friend." I said, "He's "Yeah, he's not a friend." I said, "He's "Yeah, he's not a friend." I said, "He's a part of me." a part of me." a part of me." >> Ben had broken nine different bones. >> Ben had broken nine different bones. >> Ben had broken nine different bones. [music] [music] [music] But after 3 weeks in two different But after 3 weeks in two different But after 3 weeks in two different hospitals and months of physical hospitals and months of physical hospitals and months of physical therapy, he was mostly recovered, therapy, he was mostly recovered, therapy, he was mostly recovered, [music] and the Mo grew closer than [music] and the Mo grew closer than [music] and the Mo grew closer than ever. By now, the men knew the patterns ever. By now, the men knew the patterns ever. By now, the men knew the patterns of their November [music] meetings. of their November [music] meetings. of their November [music] meetings. Dicki was going to cry. Ben was going to Dicki was going to cry. Ben was going to Dicki was going to cry. Ben was going to lay out some theological clarity. Benson lay out some theological clarity. Benson lay out some theological clarity. Benson would [music] offer to pass on his turn would [music] offer to pass on his turn would [music] offer to pass on his turn to share his story. And no one would let to share his story. And no one would let to share his story. And no one would let him. Bibbo would always go long. And him. Bibbo would always go long. And him. Bibbo would always go long. And Allan would talk about the book he was Allan would talk about the book he was Allan would talk about the book he was writing.

writing. writing. >> And he had always joked about that being >> And he had always joked about that being >> And he had always joked about that being a a desire [music] of his. I mean, he a a desire [music] of his. I mean, he a a desire [music] of his. I mean, he talked for years before he started Theo talked for years before he started Theo talked for years before he started Theo about how he wanted to write long about how he wanted to write long about how he wanted to write long fiction. He just wanted to see if he fiction. He just wanted to see if he fiction. He just wanted to see if he [music] could, you know, and so when he [music] could, you know, and so when he [music] could, you know, and so when he started each year, we kind of get like a started each year, we kind of get like a started each year, we kind of get like a Yeah, I've got got a little bit of Yeah, I've got got a little bit of Yeah, I've got got a little bit of >> And then [music] in 2022, it was done. >> And then [music] in 2022, it was done. >> And then [music] in 2022, it was done. >> We were like, "Hey, how's it coming with >> We were like, "Hey, how's it coming with >> We were like, "Hey, how's it coming with the book?" Cuz he talked about it the the book?" Cuz he talked about it the the book?" Cuz he talked about it the year before. And that was obviously one year before. And that was obviously one year before. And that was obviously one of our questions. And he's like, "It's of our questions. And he's like, "It's of our questions. And he's like, "It's done." Well, he said, "It's as done as done." Well, he said, "It's as done as done." Well, he said, "It's as done as it's going to be. I feel like it's a it's going to be. I feel like it's a it's going to be. I feel like it's a complete story." And so we were like, complete story." And so we were like, complete story." And so we were like, "Okay, well, where is it?" And he "Okay, well, where is it?" And he "Okay, well, where is it?" And he [music] was like, "We're good." Um, and [music] was like, "We're good." Um, and [music] was like, "We're good." Um, and so that was the croc like, "Hey, we so that was the croc like, "Hey, we so that was the croc like, "Hey, we really want to hear this." really want to hear this." really want to hear this." >> To hear Allan tell it, Theo was a >> To hear Allan tell it, Theo was a >> To hear Allan tell it, Theo was a practice [music] book to get him warmed practice [music] book to get him warmed practice [music] book to get him warmed up to write the story he actually wanted up to write the story he actually wanted up to write the story he actually wanted to tell, but he didn't mind sharing it to tell, but he didn't mind sharing it to tell, but he didn't mind sharing it with some of his closest friends. When with some of his closest friends. When with some of his closest friends. When they read [music] it, they all had the they read [music] it, they all had the they read [music] it, they all had the same reaction. same reaction. same reaction. >> It felt totally like him. I cried a lot >> It felt totally like him. I cried a lot >> It felt totally like him. I cried a lot when I read that book. [music] Partly when I read that book. [music] Partly when I read that book. [music] Partly because I knew and loved the author.

because I knew and loved the author. because I knew and loved the author. partly because I was like, "This is a partly because I was like, "This is a partly because I was like, "This is a masterpiece." masterpiece." masterpiece." >> I was [music] in a particularly hard >> I was [music] in a particularly hard >> I was [music] in a particularly hard season of my life and and it wrecked me, season of my life and and it wrecked me, season of my life and and it wrecked me, you know, it wrecked me. When I first you know, it wrecked me. When I first you know, it wrecked me. When I first read it, I heard Allan [music] reading read it, I heard Allan [music] reading read it, I heard Allan [music] reading it for the first third of the book. I it for the first third of the book. I it for the first third of the book. I didn't hear Theo. And when I knew it was didn't hear Theo. And when I knew it was didn't hear Theo. And when I knew it was different is when it switched [music] different is when it switched [music] different is when it switched [music] for me and I heard Theo and I heard for me and I heard Theo and I heard for me and I heard Theo and I heard Ellen. I didn't [music] hear Allan Ellen. I didn't [music] hear Allan Ellen. I didn't [music] hear Allan reading Theo. I didn't hear Allan reading Theo. I didn't hear Allan reading Theo. I didn't hear Allan reading Ellen. I that was when I knew it reading Ellen. I that was when I knew it reading Ellen. I that was when I knew it was kind of different and I suspected was kind of different and I suspected was kind of different and I suspected that this was a good book. >> Let me pause for just [music] a minute >> Let me pause for just [music] a minute to thank this episode's sponsor. to thank this episode's sponsor. to thank this episode's sponsor. Recently, my son was filling out his Recently, my son was filling out his Recently, my son was filling out his application for Dort University when he application for Dort University when he application for Dort University when he stopped [music] and looked at me and stopped [music] and looked at me and stopped [music] and looked at me and said, "Mom, did you know that all the said, "Mom, did you know that all the said, "Mom, did you know that all the students at Dort have to live on students at Dort have to live on students at Dort have to live on campus?" I did know that. I also know campus?" I did know that. I also know campus?" I did know that. I also know why Dort is a comprehensive Christian why Dort is a comprehensive Christian why Dort is a comprehensive Christian college with professors who [music] love college with professors who [music] love college with professors who [music] love Jesus and reformed theology. But some of Jesus and reformed theology. But some of Jesus and reformed theology. But some of the most important education [music] on the most important education [music] on the most important education [music] on campus takes place between friends.

campus takes place between friends. campus takes place between friends. Conversations in the dining hall, at the Conversations in the dining hall, at the Conversations in the dining hall, at the gym, [music] and in the dorms and gym, [music] and in the dorms and gym, [music] and in the dorms and apartments. That's where so many beliefs apartments. That's where so many beliefs apartments. That's where so many beliefs are considered, points of view are are considered, points of view are are considered, points of view are debated, and personal decisions are debated, and personal decisions are debated, and personal decisions are made. These friends encourage each made. These friends encourage each made. These friends encourage each other, ask [music] hard questions, and other, ask [music] hard questions, and other, ask [music] hard questions, and forge deep friendships. some of them for forge deep friendships. some of them for forge deep friendships. some of them for a lifetime. These interactions are so a lifetime. These interactions are so a lifetime. These interactions are so valuable that yes, [music] Dort students valuable that yes, [music] Dort students valuable that yes, [music] Dort students are required to live on campus. If you are required to live on campus. If you are required to live on campus. If you are or have a high school student and are or have a high school student and are or have a high school student and that sounds like the [music] type of that sounds like the [music] type of that sounds like the [music] type of college experience you'd want, I would college experience you'd want, I would college experience you'd want, I would encourage you to check it out with a encourage you to check it out with a encourage you to check it out with a campus visit of your own. To find out campus visit of your own. To find out campus visit of your own. To find out how to do that, head on over to how to do that, head on over to how to do that, head on over to dort.edu. dort.edu. dort.edu. That's d o rdt.edu. [music] A few months ago, Russell Moore A few months ago, Russell Moore interviewed Allan. Before he did, interviewed Allan. Before he did, interviewed Allan. Before he did, Russell asked on social media if anyone Russell asked on social media if anyone Russell asked on social media if anyone had a question they would like him to had a question they would like him to had a question they would like him to ask. Here's Russell and Allen on ask. Here's Russell and Allen on ask. Here's Russell and Allen on Russell's [music] podcast. Russell's [music] podcast. Russell's [music] podcast. >> The question that's been asked most, >> The question that's been asked most, >> The question that's been asked most, which I'll ask you, but I'll also give a which I'll ask you, but I'll also give a which I'll ask you, but I'll also give a theory, [music] theory, [music] theory, [music] >> okay, >> okay, >> okay, >> as to what I think's behind it.

>> as to what I think's behind it. >> as to what I think's behind it. >> Great. >> Great. >> Great. >> Number one question is, is Theo based on >> Number one question is, is Theo based on >> Number one question is, is Theo based on a real person? Mhm. a real person? Mhm. a real person? Mhm. >> And here's here's why I think that >> And here's here's why I think that >> And here's here's why I think that question is [music] being asked. I think question is [music] being asked. I think question is [music] being asked. I think people are either hoping that there is people are either hoping that there is people are either hoping that there is somebody like Theo [music] somebody like Theo [music] somebody like Theo [music] out there, or they're afraid that out there, or they're afraid that out there, or they're afraid that there's not. there's not. there's not. >> Allan's friends have joked with him >> Allan's friends have joked with him >> Allan's friends have joked with him about this [music] question, each about this [music] question, each about this [music] question, each wondering if, hey, maybe he was thinking wondering if, hey, maybe he was thinking wondering if, hey, maybe he was thinking of them when he penned such a [music] of them when he penned such a [music] of them when he penned such a [music] virtuous man. But Allan told Russell, virtuous man. But Allan told Russell, virtuous man. But Allan told Russell, like he's told everyone who has asked, like he's told everyone who has asked, like he's told everyone who has asked, [music] that Theo is based on his [music] that Theo is based on his [music] that Theo is based on his brother Gary. M maybe here's what his brother Gary. M maybe here's what his brother Gary. M maybe here's what his friends think. friends think. friends think. >> It makes sense to me now how [music] >> It makes sense to me now how [music] >> It makes sense to me now how [music] pieces of Theo are Gary. He was winsome pieces of Theo are Gary. He was winsome pieces of Theo are Gary. He was winsome and and kind and all those things, but and and kind and all those things, but and and kind and all those things, but he was very uh direct and very abrupt he was very uh direct and very abrupt he was very uh direct and very abrupt and very pointed and he got to the and very pointed and he got to the and very pointed and he got to the [music] gospel the second he met you, [music] gospel the second he met you, [music] gospel the second he met you, right? He didn't waste time. Theo is a right? He didn't waste time. Theo is a right? He didn't waste time. Theo is a much slower, you know, way to that. Gary much slower, you know, way to that. Gary much slower, you know, way to that. Gary was so generous and he was very was so generous and he was very was so generous and he was very attentive to detail. Oh, and Gary loved attentive to detail. Oh, and Gary loved attentive to detail. Oh, and Gary loved to surprise people. [music] That's part to surprise people. [music] That's part to surprise people. [music] That's part of sort of the bestow thing is, and of sort of the bestow thing is, and of sort of the bestow thing is, and don't tell Levi this, but Levi, [music] don't tell Levi this, but Levi, [music] don't tell Levi this, but Levi, [music] the tenderness and attentiveness and the tenderness and attentiveness and the tenderness and attentiveness and patience and kindness and like the not patience and kindness and like the not patience and kindness and like the not giving away the 92 portraits [music] giving away the 92 portraits [music] giving away the 92 portraits [music] at one time. That's Levi. While he might at one time. That's Levi. While he might at one time. That's Levi. While he might not say he's Theo, [music] I mean, we not say he's Theo, [music] I mean, we not say he's Theo, [music] I mean, we all kind of in this group look at him

all kind of in this group look at him all kind of in this group look at him and go, "Yeah, I know you think it's and go, "Yeah, I know you think it's and go, "Yeah, I know you think it's Gary, but we kind of think it's you." Gary, but we kind of think it's you." Gary, but we kind of think it's you." >> He will say the book's not about him. He >> He will say the book's not about him. He >> He will say the book's not about him. He is not Theo except aspirationally. And is not Theo except aspirationally. And is not Theo except aspirationally. And that is true, but he's dog on close. that is true, but he's dog on close. that is true, but he's dog on close. >> Allan is the most Theo person that we >> Allan is the most Theo person that we >> Allan is the most Theo person that we all know. all know. all know. >> If you're counting, that's five [music] >> If you're counting, that's five [music] >> If you're counting, that's five [music] for five. Allan's friends were all for five. Allan's friends were all for five. Allan's friends were all recognizing in Theo the same gentle recognizing in Theo the same gentle recognizing in Theo the same gentle generosity and [music] close attention generosity and [music] close attention generosity and [music] close attention to people that they saw in their friend. to people that they saw in their friend. to people that they saw in their friend. But the similarity is even stronger than But the similarity is even stronger than But the similarity is even stronger than that. They knew that when he was at the that. They knew that when he was at the that. They knew that when he was at the University of Georgia, he saw and University of Georgia, he saw and University of Georgia, he saw and developed friendships with people no one developed friendships with people no one developed friendships with people no one else did, like those serving the meals else did, like those serving the meals else did, like those serving the meals in the dining halls. [music] They knew in the dining halls. [music] They knew in the dining halls. [music] They knew that when he was in Scotland, he helped that when he was in Scotland, he helped that when he was in Scotland, he helped an elderly widowerower home through the an elderly widowerower home through the an elderly widowerower home through the icy streets. [music] They knew he'd just icy streets. [music] They knew he'd just icy streets. [music] They knew he'd just spent a year writing a song every day, spent a year writing a song every day, spent a year writing a song every day, which made him pay attention to [music] which made him pay attention to [music] which made him pay attention to [music] everything. And then there's this. In everything. And then there's this. In everything. And then there's this. In 2018, Allan released an album called 2018, Allan released an album called 2018, Allan released an album called People in My Town. [music] People in my town all have People in my town all have [music and singing] a story. People in [music and singing] a story. People in [music and singing] a story. People in my town.

So he took a group of people that lived So he took a group of people that lived within a few miles of him. He went and within a few miles of him. He went and within a few miles of him. He went and introduced himself [music] and asked if introduced himself [music] and asked if introduced himself [music] and asked if he could talk with them, interview them, he could talk with them, interview them, he could talk with them, interview them, and and then he went back and wrote a and and then he went back and wrote a and and then he went back and wrote a song for that person. And then he had song for that person. And then he had song for that person. And then he had Gary Pound, that artist, make a portrait Gary Pound, that artist, make a portrait Gary Pound, that artist, make a portrait of them. I think there were seven. Uh of them. I think there were seven. Uh of them. I think there were seven. Uh all seven come to his house. He has this all seven come to his house. He has this all seven come to his house. He has this great round table which you can see great round table which you can see great round table which you can see everybody's face. He had them all come everybody's face. He had them all come everybody's face. He had them all come and serve them dinner and one by one he and serve them dinner and one by one he and serve them dinner and one by one he handed them their portrait and then sat handed them their portrait and then sat handed them their portrait and then sat beside them with his guitar and played beside them with his guitar and played beside them with his guitar and played the song that he wrote for them. [music] the song that he wrote for them. [music] the song that he wrote for them. [music] And of course it they just sobbed. When And of course it they just sobbed. When And of course it they just sobbed. When Allan's friends read Theo of Golden, Allan's friends read Theo of Golden, Allan's friends read Theo of Golden, they cried because it was good, but they they cried because it was good, but they they cried because it was good, but they also cried because they recognized the also cried because they recognized the also cried because they recognized the protagonist. protagonist. protagonist. Later, Dicki told Alan, "You [music] Later, Dicki told Alan, "You [music] Later, Dicki told Alan, "You [music] have been writing this book your whole have been writing this book your whole have been writing this book your whole life."

"Publishing a book is easier said than "Publishing a book is easier said than done." Alan floated his manuscript done." Alan floated his manuscript done." Alan floated his manuscript [music] past one publisher who turned [music] past one publisher who turned [music] past one publisher who turned him down. Rather than continuing to him down. Rather than continuing to him down. Rather than continuing to knock on those [music] doors, he decided knock on those [music] doors, he decided knock on those [music] doors, he decided to self-publish. He didn't know how, to self-publish. He didn't know how, to self-publish. He didn't know how, though, so he hired his niece, Aaron though, so he hired his niece, Aaron though, so he hired his niece, Aaron Richie, to help. [music] They worked Richie, to help. [music] They worked Richie, to help. [music] They worked hard at it. Aaron researched how to hard at it. Aaron researched how to hard at it. Aaron researched how to publish a book. The two of them updated publish a book. The two of them updated publish a book. The two of them updated his [music] website, brainstormed a list his [music] website, brainstormed a list his [music] website, brainstormed a list of connections he could ask to spread of connections he could ask to spread of connections he could ask to spread the word, and [music] made plans to the word, and [music] made plans to the word, and [music] made plans to connect with book clubs. It was a lot of connect with book clubs. It was a lot of connect with book clubs. It was a lot of effort for something that could go effort for something that could go effort for something that could go nowhere. So, just before [music] the nowhere. So, just before [music] the nowhere. So, just before [music] the book came out, Allan's friends decided book came out, Allan's friends decided book came out, Allan's friends decided to encourage him during one of their Mo to encourage him during one of their Mo to encourage him during one of their Mo weekends. weekends. weekends. >> That was really Benson's idea. It's >> That was really Benson's idea. It's >> That was really Benson's idea. It's there's this great restaurant in there's this great restaurant in there's this great restaurant in Columbus that I uh happened to know the Columbus that I uh happened to know the Columbus that I uh happened to know the owner and the chef and just asked her if owner and the chef and just asked her if owner and the chef and just asked her if she would be willing to come out and do she would be willing to come out and do she would be willing to come out and do [music] that for us. And then I reached [music] that for us. And then I reached [music] that for us. And then I reached out to Gary Pound who has who has done out to Gary Pound who has who has done out to Gary Pound who has who has done all his portraits in Fountain City all his portraits in Fountain City all his portraits in Fountain City Coffee and said, "Hey, would you do one Coffee and said, "Hey, would you do one Coffee and said, "Hey, would you do one of Allen?" [music] of Allen?" [music] of Allen?" [music] >> Fountain City Coffee is the real life >> Fountain City Coffee is the real life >> Fountain City Coffee is the real life coffee shop in Columbus that inspired coffee shop in Columbus that inspired coffee shop in Columbus that inspired Allen's fictional coffee shop in Golden.

Allen's fictional coffee shop in Golden. Allen's fictional coffee shop in Golden. Portraits really do hang on the Fountain Portraits really do hang on the Fountain Portraits really do hang on the Fountain City [music] walls drawn by Alan's City [music] walls drawn by Alan's City [music] walls drawn by Alan's friend Gary. While Bart and the other friend Gary. While Bart and the other friend Gary. While Bart and the other guys were making these calls, they did guys were making these calls, they did guys were making these calls, they did not [music] tell Alan what they were not [music] tell Alan what they were not [music] tell Alan what they were planning. the van pulled in and Levi is planning. the van pulled in and Levi is planning. the van pulled in and Levi is very protective of the farm in general. very protective of the farm in general. very protective of the farm in general. [music] I think that's when he had sold [music] I think that's when he had sold [music] I think that's when he had sold some of it and he did not want anybody some of it and he did not want anybody some of it and he did not want anybody going on that side of the property. And going on that side of the property. And going on that side of the property. And so when that van went by, [music] Levi so when that van went by, [music] Levi so when that van went by, [music] Levi got alarmed and walked out there a got alarmed and walked out there a got alarmed and walked out there a little defiantly and [music] protective. little defiantly and [music] protective. little defiantly and [music] protective. And then the van turned around and he's And then the van turned around and he's And then the van turned around and he's of course being kind, but he's you can of course being kind, but he's you can of course being kind, but he's you can look [music] in his face and he's look [music] in his face and he's look [music] in his face and he's thinking, "What is going on?" And then thinking, "What is going on?" And then thinking, "What is going on?" And then they get out with their aprons and they get out with their aprons and they get out with their aprons and [music] um Levi just you know he melts. [music] um Levi just you know he melts. [music] um Levi just you know he melts. And then we show them in the kitchen. And then we show them in the kitchen. And then we show them in the kitchen. They served us amazing [music] meal. Uh They served us amazing [music] meal. Uh They served us amazing [music] meal. Uh so when Levi came in and the name plates so when Levi came in and the name plates so when Levi came in and the name plates were there and the [music] table were there and the [music] table were there and the [music] table decorated and he's curious but you know decorated and he's curious but you know decorated and he's curious but you know it uh nothing's [music] been revealed it uh nothing's [music] been revealed it uh nothing's [music] been revealed yet. So the meal's wonderful and then yet. So the meal's wonderful and then yet. So the meal's wonderful and then [music] the portrait's brought out and [music] the portrait's brought out and [music] the portrait's brought out and Levi stands up and opens it, looks at it Levi stands up and opens it, looks at it Levi stands up and opens it, looks at it and then we went around the [music] room and then we went around the [music] room and then we went around the [music] room and told him what we see. And the then and told him what we see. And the then and told him what we see. And the then the most magical [music] part was Levi the most magical [music] part was Levi the most magical [music] part was Levi put his head on the table, his arms put his head on the table, his arms put his head on the table, his arms folded uh on top of his head, [music] folded uh on top of his head, [music] folded uh on top of his head, [music] and he he didn't cry. I mean, he wailed.

and he he didn't cry. I mean, he wailed. and he he didn't cry. I mean, he wailed. And it wasn't for 30 seconds. It it was And it wasn't for 30 seconds. It it was And it wasn't for 30 seconds. It it was four or five or more [music] four or five or more [music] four or five or more [music] minutes of wailing. The two chefs came minutes of wailing. The two chefs came minutes of wailing. The two chefs came out and were watching and were just out and were watching and were just out and were watching and were just astonished [music] astonished [music] astonished [music] and they had tears in their eyes. And I and they had tears in their eyes. And I and they had tears in their eyes. And I don't cry don't cry don't cry and I cried [laughter] and I cried [laughter] and I cried [laughter] because to see Levi [music] to know that because to see Levi [music] to know that because to see Levi [music] to know that he was really loved by us and that we he was really loved by us and that we he was really loved by us and that we would do something like that. At one would do something like that. At one would do something like that. At one point while he was still crying he said point while he was still crying he said point while he was still crying he said this [music] is what Gary would have this [music] is what Gary would have this [music] is what Gary would have done and then he started sobbing again. done and then he started sobbing again. done and then he started sobbing again. So there again is connected with [music] So there again is connected with [music] So there again is connected with [music] the grief which really makes me sad that the grief which really makes me sad that the grief which really makes me sad that I just wish Gary was around to [music] I just wish Gary was around to [music] I just wish Gary was around to [music] be with Levi through all of this. But be with Levi through all of this. But be with Levi through all of this. But that was one of the most beautiful that was one of the most beautiful that was one of the most beautiful nights of my life. nights of my life. nights of my life. >> Here's how Allan explained [music] it >> Here's how Allan explained [music] it >> Here's how Allan explained [music] it later in a public talk he did with later in a public talk he did with later in a public talk he did with Dicki. Dicki. Dicki. >> It was an expression of their >> It was an expression of their >> It was an expression of their affirmation and their their love [music] affirmation and their their love [music] affirmation and their their love [music] for me. But I dare say Theo Golden would for me. But I dare say Theo Golden would for me. But I dare say Theo Golden would never have seen the light of day but for never have seen the light of day but for never have seen the light of day but for these guys really [music] getting behind these guys really [music] getting behind these guys really [music] getting behind me and pushing me. Uh, and I I pray for me and pushing me. Uh, and I I pray for me and pushing me. Uh, and I I pray for all of you that you've got people like all of you that you've got people like all of you that you've got people like that in your [music] life who would uh that in your [music] life who would uh that in your [music] life who would uh who would have your portrait done and who would have your portrait done and who would have your portrait done and tell you things about yourself that you tell you things about yourself that you tell you things about yourself that you could never believe to be true. I will could never believe to be true. I will could never believe to be true. I will tell you a dilemma that they created for tell you a dilemma that they created for tell you a dilemma that they created for me. So, somebody gives you a portrait of me. So, somebody gives you a portrait of me. So, somebody gives you a portrait of yourself. What are you going to do with yourself. What are you going to do with yourself. What are you going to do with it? I mean, come on. Right?

In the first few months, Theo of Golden In the first few months, Theo of Golden sold 3,000 copies. A lot of them were to sold 3,000 copies. A lot of them were to sold 3,000 copies. A lot of them were to Allan's friends and family. Allan's friends and family. Allan's friends and family. >> When I first gave away my first few >> When I first gave away my first few >> When I first gave away my first few copies when he had self-published it and copies when he had self-published it and copies when he had self-published it and I bought a box, a case of them and I bought a box, a case of them and I bought a box, a case of them and started giving them away. I gave them started giving them away. I gave them started giving them away. I gave them away for Christmas gifts that year away for Christmas gifts that year away for Christmas gifts that year [music] um to a lot of people. And I [music] um to a lot of people. And I [music] um to a lot of people. And I remember writing in the in the front of remember writing in the in the front of remember writing in the in the front of it. I was like, I have no idea [music] it. I was like, I have no idea [music] it. I was like, I have no idea [music] if this is actually a good book. I just if this is actually a good book. I just if this is actually a good book. I just because I I I am so biased. It's written because I I I am so biased. It's written because I I I am so biased. It's written by a a man that I love and a dear by a a man that I love and a dear by a a man that I love and a dear friend. And it was read at a season in friend. And it was read at a season in friend. And it was read at a season in my life where I needed kindness more my life where I needed kindness more my life where I needed kindness more than anything in this world. And it than anything in this world. And it than anything in this world. And it wrecked me. But I need to give this book wrecked me. But I need to give this book wrecked me. But I need to give this book to you, whoever it was, because you have to you, whoever it was, because you have to you, whoever it was, because you have shown kindness in my life. And I hope shown kindness in my life. And I hope shown kindness in my life. And I hope that you'll receive kindness in this that you'll receive kindness in this that you'll receive kindness in this book. And then I just got these book. And then I just got these book. And then I just got these responses back from people. They're responses back from people. They're responses back from people. They're like, it's a good [music] book. We all like, it's a good [music] book. We all like, it's a good [music] book. We all bought our 40 or 50 copies and gave it bought our 40 or 50 copies and gave it bought our 40 or 50 copies and gave it to friends that Allan has hundreds to friends that Allan has hundreds to friends that Allan has hundreds [music] and thousands of friends. And so [music] and thousands of friends. And so [music] and thousands of friends. And so at some point he wrote [music] us and at some point he wrote [music] us and at some point he wrote [music] us and said, "Hey, we're no longer in the red."

said, "Hey, we're no longer in the red." said, "Hey, we're no longer in the red." You know, we made a dollar. [music] And You know, we made a dollar. [music] And You know, we made a dollar. [music] And we kind of celebrated and it just kind we kind of celebrated and it just kind we kind of celebrated and it just kind of kept on going. And then people would of kept on going. And then people would of kept on going. And then people would just start talking about it, you know, just start talking about it, you know, just start talking about it, you know, and [music] um they'd sell more. and [music] um they'd sell more. and [music] um they'd sell more. In 2024, Alan had sold about 25,000 In 2024, Alan had sold about 25,000 In 2024, Alan had sold about 25,000 [music] [music] [music] copies of Theo, which was about 24,000 copies of Theo, which was about 24,000 copies of Theo, which was about 24,000 more than he was expecting. He and Aaron more than he was expecting. He and Aaron more than he was expecting. He and Aaron thought sales would begin to drop in thought sales would begin to drop in thought sales would begin to drop in 2025. Instead, they climbed even higher. 2025. Instead, they climbed even higher. 2025. Instead, they climbed even higher. Pretty soon, they were selling a,000 Pretty soon, they were selling a,000 Pretty soon, they were selling a,000 copies a day. That caught the attention copies a day. That caught the attention copies a day. That caught the attention of [music] large publishers who were so of [music] large publishers who were so of [music] large publishers who were so interested they got into a bidding war. interested they got into a bidding war. interested they got into a bidding war. 2 years after Alan published Theo, 2 years after Alan published Theo, 2 years after Alan published Theo, [music] Simon and Schustster re-released [music] Simon and Schustster re-released [music] Simon and Schustster re-released the book. 5 months later, it had sold the book. 5 months later, it had sold the book. 5 months later, it had sold more than a million copies in the United more than a million copies in the United more than a million copies in the United States alone. 3 months later, it had States alone. 3 months later, it had States alone. 3 months later, it had sold another 1.5 million copies. Theo of sold another 1.5 million copies. Theo of sold another 1.5 million copies. Theo of Golden has been read by thousands of Golden has been read by thousands of Golden has been read by thousands of book [music] clubs, including Katie book [music] clubs, including Katie book [music] clubs, including Katie Kurrick. Oprah and Jenna Bush Hagar both Kurrick. Oprah and Jenna Bush Hagar both Kurrick. Oprah and Jenna Bush Hagar both raved about it. Tourists are [music] raved about it. Tourists are [music] raved about it. Tourists are [music] flocking to Fountain City Coffee and the flocking to Fountain City Coffee and the flocking to Fountain City Coffee and the other landmarks in Columbus that were other landmarks in Columbus that were other landmarks in Columbus that were fictionalized in the novel. Alan's fictionalized in the novel. Alan's fictionalized in the novel. Alan's [music] friends can hardly believe it.

[music] friends can hardly believe it. [music] friends can hardly believe it. We all felt like he had the skills to do We all felt like he had the skills to do We all felt like he had the skills to do it. But, you know, who thinks they can it. But, you know, who thinks they can it. But, you know, who thinks they can actually write a novel that's gonna be actually write a novel that's gonna be actually write a novel that's gonna be anything? anything? anything? >> Gobsmack. I mean, I just, you know, that >> Gobsmack. I mean, I just, you know, that >> Gobsmack. I mean, I just, you know, that seems to be the, you know, you just seems to be the, you know, you just seems to be the, you know, you just can't believe it. can't believe it. can't believe it. >> We look at [music] this and we're like, >> We look at [music] this and we're like, >> We look at [music] this and we're like, are you kidding me? It's just crazy. are you kidding me? It's just crazy. are you kidding me? It's just crazy. >> Readers report almost conversion-like >> Readers report almost conversion-like >> Readers report almost conversion-like experiences. It changed [music] me experiences. It changed [music] me experiences. It changed [music] me instantly, said one. My heart shattered instantly, said one. My heart shattered instantly, said one. My heart shattered into thousands of pieces, said another. into thousands of pieces, said another. into thousands of pieces, said another. A third wrote, "I too have [music] A third wrote, "I too have [music] A third wrote, "I too have [music] tasted heaven reading this." That's tasted heaven reading this." That's tasted heaven reading this." That's interesting because the point of Theo is interesting because the point of Theo is interesting because the point of Theo is fairly simple. [music] fairly simple. [music] fairly simple. [music] In fact, it's the same message that's in In fact, it's the same message that's in In fact, it's the same message that's in Allen's songs. He is describing a life Allen's songs. He is describing a life Allen's songs. He is describing a life that is gentle, [music] attentive, that is gentle, [music] attentive, that is gentle, [music] attentive, intentional, and communal. A life of intentional, and communal. A life of intentional, and communal. A life of love rooted in and empowered by the love love rooted in and empowered by the love love rooted in and empowered by the love of God. In other words, a Christian of God. In other words, a Christian of God. In other words, a Christian life. [music] I think what Theo has done life. [music] I think what Theo has done life. [music] I think what Theo has done in our societal moment, we long for in our societal moment, we long for in our societal moment, we long for people like that to be real and to be in people like that to be real and to be in people like that to be real and to be in our lives and to be those kind of our lives and to be those kind of our lives and to be those kind of people. [music] It's aspirational for people. [music] It's aspirational for people. [music] It's aspirational for sure. It's hopeful. It hearkens to what sure. It's hopeful. It hearkens to what sure. It's hopeful. It hearkens to what really matters and and that we can all really matters and and that we can all really matters and and that we can all be generous. We can all be thoughtful.

be generous. We can all be thoughtful. be generous. We can all be thoughtful. We can all be kind-hearted and we can We can all be kind-hearted and we can We can all be kind-hearted and we can all [music] take action to do those all [music] take action to do those all [music] take action to do those things. We are dealing with the things. We are dealing with the things. We are dealing with the isolation of a culture. And so, yeah, I isolation of a culture. And so, yeah, I isolation of a culture. And so, yeah, I think there's a hunger [music] to be think there's a hunger [music] to be think there's a hunger [music] to be known, a hunger to have a community of known, a hunger to have a community of known, a hunger to have a community of people who know me and who care about people who know me and who care about people who know me and who care about me. My old pastor [music] Bob Fleheart me. My old pastor [music] Bob Fleheart me. My old pastor [music] Bob Fleheart would say the gospel is for you, but would say the gospel is for you, but would say the gospel is for you, but it's not about you. And I think that is it's not about you. And I think that is it's not about you. And I think that is really I [music] think the community really I [music] think the community really I [music] think the community that Theo had, it was for him. It was that Theo had, it was for him. It was that Theo had, it was for him. It was for those people. But he even encouraged for those people. But he even encouraged for those people. But he even encouraged like it's not about you. It's about like it's not about you. It's about like it's not about you. It's about taking what [music] you have been given taking what [music] you have been given taking what [music] you have been given and giving it to others. Building the and giving it to others. Building the and giving it to others. Building the friendships. friendships. friendships. >> You might think that a man who is now a >> You might think that a man who is now a >> You might think that a man who is now a best-selling author, asked [music] to do best-selling author, asked [music] to do best-selling author, asked [music] to do more interviews and events than anyone more interviews and events than anyone more interviews and events than anyone has time to do, executive [music] has time to do, executive [music] has time to do, executive [music] producing a major motion picture and producing a major motion picture and producing a major motion picture and working on another book, might not be working on another book, might not be working on another book, might not be able to hang out quite [music] as much able to hang out quite [music] as much able to hang out quite [music] as much as he used to. But for Alan Levi, it is as he used to. But for Alan Levi, it is as he used to. But for Alan Levi, it is the opposite. The Mo has added [music] a the opposite. The Mo has added [music] a the opposite. The Mo has added [music] a day to their annual November gathering.

day to their annual November gathering. day to their annual November gathering. Now they hang out for 4 days instead of Now they hang out for 4 days instead of Now they hang out for 4 days instead of three. And then they added Zoom calls three. And then they added Zoom calls three. And then they added Zoom calls every [music] other month or so. For 90 every [music] other month or so. For 90 every [music] other month or so. For 90 minutes, they talk about Dickiy's son minutes, they talk about Dickiy's son minutes, they talk about Dickiy's son getting married, what retirement is getting married, what retirement is getting married, what retirement is going to be like, and what's going going to be like, and what's going going to be like, and what's going [music] on with Theo. [music] on with Theo. [music] on with Theo. >> I just think we all probably needed each >> I just think we all probably needed each >> I just think we all probably needed each other a little bit more [music] once a other a little bit more [music] once a other a little bit more [music] once a year for 4 days. But certainly us being year for 4 days. But certainly us being year for 4 days. But certainly us being together more has made us want to be together more has made us want to be together more has made us want to be together more. It has been a good thing. together more. It has been a good thing. together more. It has been a good thing. [music] It's made us want to talk more. [music] It's made us want to talk more. [music] It's made us want to talk more. So that's that feels really good. So that's that feels really good. So that's that feels really good. >> In many ways, this [music] friend group >> In many ways, this [music] friend group >> In many ways, this [music] friend group carries the pattern of sanctification. carries the pattern of sanctification. carries the pattern of sanctification. As these men slowly, consistently over a As these men slowly, consistently over a As these men slowly, consistently over a long period of [music] time push each long period of [music] time push each long period of [music] time push each other toward Jesus, they can see richer other toward Jesus, they can see richer other toward Jesus, they can see richer and deeper virtues developing in and deeper virtues developing in and deeper virtues developing in themselves and in each other. Allen's themselves and in each other. Allen's themselves and in each other. Allen's book [music] has pushed them further in book [music] has pushed them further in book [music] has pushed them further in the direction they were already going. the direction they were already going. the direction they were already going. Benson, who is a hospice chaplain, has Benson, who is a hospice chaplain, has Benson, who is a hospice chaplain, has taken up letterw writing. Dicki, [music] taken up letterw writing. Dicki, [music] taken up letterw writing. Dicki, [music] who is a school superintendent, has led who is a school superintendent, has led who is a school superintendent, has led his leadership team through a Theo of his leadership team through a Theo of his leadership team through a Theo of golden study this year. We had the golden study this year. We had the golden study this year. We had the deepest, most thoughtful conversations.

deepest, most thoughtful conversations. deepest, most thoughtful conversations. He said, "All of the Mo members want to He said, "All of the Mo members want to He said, "All of the Mo members want to pay better attention to [music] their pay better attention to [music] their pay better attention to [music] their own lives, to notice people, to ask own lives, to notice people, to ask own lives, to notice people, to ask about their stories, and to love them about their stories, and to love them about their stories, and to love them well. They're following Ellen's example well. They're following Ellen's example well. They're following Ellen's example [music] and I'm starting to get [music] and I'm starting to get [music] and I'm starting to get suspicious about something. And so I suspicious about something. And so I suspicious about something. And so I said to these guys, "Hey, is Alan Levi said to these guys, "Hey, is Alan Levi said to these guys, "Hey, is Alan Levi [music] perfect?" [music] perfect?" [music] perfect?" >> By no stretch is Al Levi perfect. And he >> By no stretch is Al Levi perfect. And he >> By no stretch is Al Levi perfect. And he will be the first to tell you will be the first to tell you will be the first to tell you >> no, he is not perfect. He is very >> no, he is not perfect. He is very >> no, he is not perfect. He is very self-aware uh in that regard. [music] self-aware uh in that regard. [music] self-aware uh in that regard. [music] And I think the gospel means so much to And I think the gospel means so much to And I think the gospel means so much to him because he knows of his own him because he knows of his own him because he knows of his own depravity. I think it's that same depravity. I think it's that same depravity. I think it's that same [music] tension of you're far worse than [music] tension of you're far worse than [music] tension of you're far worse than you think you are, but you're more loved you think you are, but you're more loved you think you are, but you're more loved and accepted than you can hope. And I and accepted than you can hope. And I and accepted than you can hope. And I think Allan lives that out. think Allan lives that out. think Allan lives that out. >> No, he would be the first to tell you >> No, he would be the first to tell you >> No, he would be the first to tell you he's not perfect. He would be shouting he's not perfect. He would be shouting he's not perfect. He would be shouting it from the the mountain tops that he's it from the the mountain tops that he's it from the the mountain tops that he's not perfect, but he really personifies not perfect, but he really personifies not perfect, but he really personifies Christ in lots of ways. Um, so he's not Christ in lots of ways. Um, so he's not Christ in lots of ways. Um, so he's not perfect. He's broken. [music] He's perfect. He's broken. [music] He's perfect. He's broken. [music] He's fallen, but he's trying to center his fallen, but he's trying to center his fallen, but he's trying to center his life around Jesus. to allow Jesus to life around Jesus. to allow Jesus to life around Jesus. to allow Jesus to shape him and help him and and so when shape him and help him and and so when shape him and help him and and so when he does screw up and mess up and stumble he does screw up and mess up and stumble he does screw up and mess up and stumble and fall and all those kind of things, and fall and all those kind of things, and fall and all those kind of things, he's got this [music] he's got this [music] he's got this [music] deep well of Christ, this deep centering deep well of Christ, this deep centering deep well of Christ, this deep centering of Jesus that helps bring him back to of Jesus that helps bring him back to of Jesus that helps bring him back to health um in a lot of ways. So yeah, no, health um in a lot of ways. So yeah, no, health um in a lot of ways. So yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Not perfect. Not perfect no, no, no, no. Not perfect. Not perfect no, no, no, no. Not perfect. Not perfect at all.

at all. at all. Alan Levi [music] Alan Levi [music] Alan Levi [music] is just a guy living in a small town in is just a guy living in a small town in is just a guy living in a small town in the south, reading his Bible and loving the south, reading his Bible and loving the south, reading his Bible and loving his neighbors and using his gifts to the his neighbors and using his gifts to the his neighbors and using his gifts to the glory of God. In Theo, [music] he has glory of God. In Theo, [music] he has glory of God. In Theo, [music] he has given the world an example of a man who given the world an example of a man who given the world an example of a man who has suffered loss and heartache, who has suffered loss and heartache, who has suffered loss and heartache, who sees people around him and who gives sees people around him and who gives sees people around him and who gives them his careful attention and genuine them his careful attention and genuine them his careful attention and genuine affection. [music] Alan and Theo are affection. [music] Alan and Theo are affection. [music] Alan and Theo are showing the world a compelling showing the world a compelling showing the world a compelling Christianity. Christianity. Christianity. I don't know if you have a friend I don't know if you have a friend I don't know if you have a friend [music] like that, but I do know you can [music] like that, but I do know you can [music] like that, but I do know you can be a friend like that. be a friend like that. be a friend like that. >> My advice might be to put down the the >> My advice might be to put down the the >> My advice might be to put down the the smartphone, look people in the in the smartphone, look people in the in the smartphone, look people in the in the eyes, look people in the face, and just eyes, look people in the face, and just eyes, look people in the face, and just do it. Go for it, right? You know, if do it. Go for it, right? You know, if do it. Go for it, right? You know, if you have a a groups, throw it [music] you have a a groups, throw it [music] you have a a groups, throw it [music] out there. Be bold and courageous and out there. Be bold and courageous and out there. Be bold and courageous and say, "What if we got together and did say, "What if we got together and did say, "What if we got together and did this more regular?" Or, "What if we were this more regular?" Or, "What if we were this more regular?" Or, "What if we were a little [music] more intentional about a little [music] more intentional about a little [music] more intentional about our friendship?" our friendship?" our friendship?" When you do this, be sure the friendship When you do this, be sure the friendship When you do this, be sure the friendship can be built on something bigger than can be built on something bigger than can be built on something bigger than yourselves. Ben is old enough to have yourselves. Ben is old enough to have yourselves. Ben is old enough to have seen baseball friends and [music] soccer seen baseball friends and [music] soccer seen baseball friends and [music] soccer friends and football friends come and friends and football friends come and friends and football friends come and go.

go. go. >> You may have some common owls. You >> You may have some common owls. You >> You may have some common owls. You certainly have children in common who certainly have children in common who certainly have children in common who are playing on this team or doing this, are playing on this team or doing this, are playing on this team or doing this, you know, recital or or dance team or you know, recital or or dance team or you know, recital or or dance team or whatever it might be. whatever it might be. whatever it might be. >> The illusion is you think, well, these >> The illusion is you think, well, these >> The illusion is you think, well, these are my friends. Well, you're only are my friends. Well, you're only are my friends. Well, you're only friends for a season because you're only friends for a season because you're only friends for a season because you're only friends because of [music] the mutual friends because of [music] the mutual friends because of [music] the mutual interest that your children have. And so interest that your children have. And so interest that your children have. And so the children are what are bringing you the children are what are bringing you the children are what are bringing you together. I know nobody who was on together. I know nobody who was on together. I know nobody who was on [music] my son's baseball team from 15, [music] my son's baseball team from 15, [music] my son's baseball team from 15, 20 years ago. When that ended, we didn't 20 years ago. When that ended, we didn't 20 years ago. When that ended, we didn't see them anymore. The key is that see them anymore. The key is that see them anymore. The key is that friendship has to be about something. friendship has to be about something. friendship has to be about something. The deeper the object of [music] what The deeper the object of [music] what The deeper the object of [music] what the friendship is about, the deeper the the friendship is about, the deeper the the friendship is about, the deeper the friendship. Right? If it's about work, friendship. Right? If it's about work, friendship. Right? If it's about work, well, that'll go so far. If it's about well, that'll go so far. If it's about well, that'll go so far. If it's about your kids [music] sports or their your kids [music] sports or their your kids [music] sports or their activities, it'll, you know, scouts, activities, it'll, you know, scouts, activities, it'll, you know, scouts, whatever, it'll only go so far. But if whatever, it'll only go so far. But if whatever, it'll only go so far. But if it's about [music] ultimate things and it's about [music] ultimate things and it's about [music] ultimate things and things that matter to that group of things that matter to that group of things that matter to that group of friends deeply, then that means there's friends deeply, then that means there's friends deeply, then that means there's a real chance or it will last. a real chance or it will last. a real chance or it will last. >> When you find those people, work at that >> When you find those people, work at that >> When you find those people, work at that friendship. [music] friendship. [music] friendship. [music] >> Intentionality, patience, and what is >> Intentionality, patience, and what is >> Intentionality, patience, and what is it? The Tim Keller book, it? The Tim Keller book, it? The Tim Keller book, selfforgetfulness.

selfforgetfulness. selfforgetfulness. You want to make good friends. [music] You want to make good friends. [music] You want to make good friends. [music] see the good in other people and tell see the good in other people and tell see the good in other people and tell them what you see. And as you do that, them what you see. And as you do that, them what you see. And as you do that, they will begin to tell you more about they will begin to tell you more about they will begin to tell you more about [music] themsel. You don't make friends [music] themsel. You don't make friends [music] themsel. You don't make friends by telling people who you are. You make by telling people who you are. You make by telling people who you are. You make friends by extracting [music] who they friends by extracting [music] who they friends by extracting [music] who they are. You can do this at church in week are. You can do this at church in week are. You can do this at church in week after week of drinking coffee with after week of drinking coffee with after week of drinking coffee with someone after a service. You can do this someone after a service. You can do this someone after a service. You can do this in your Bible study or disciplehip group in your Bible study or disciplehip group in your Bible study or disciplehip group or small group. You can do this in or small group. You can do this in or small group. You can do this in quarterly Zoom calls or annual [music] quarterly Zoom calls or annual [music] quarterly Zoom calls or annual [music] weekend retreats. Remember when I told weekend retreats. Remember when I told weekend retreats. Remember when I told you about the inscription at the bottom you about the inscription at the bottom you about the inscription at the bottom of the copyright page of the of the copyright page of the of the copyright page of the self-published copies of [music] Theo in self-published copies of [music] Theo in self-published copies of [music] Theo in collaboration with the Mo Consortium? collaboration with the Mo Consortium? collaboration with the Mo Consortium? Well, after that there is another set of Well, after that there is another set of Well, after that there is another set of [music] secret initials TTK. [music] secret initials TTK. [music] secret initials TTK. When the Mo gets together for [music] a When the Mo gets together for [music] a When the Mo gets together for [music] a meal, they always bow their heads to meal, they always bow their heads to meal, they always bow their heads to pray. After the amen, they lift their pray. After the amen, they lift their pray. After the amen, they lift their glasses to [music] each other, but they glasses to [music] each other, but they glasses to [music] each other, but they aren't toasting success or happiness or aren't toasting success or happiness or aren't toasting success or happiness or their wives and children or even each their wives and children or even each their wives and children or even each other. Instead, they toast the other. Instead, they toast the other. Instead, they toast the foundation of their lives, [music] the foundation of their lives, [music] the foundation of their lives, [music] the reason they're together, and the reason they're together, and the reason they're together, and the destination they're helping each other destination they're helping each other destination they're helping each other aim for. They say to the king.

Thank [music] you for listening to this Thank [music] you for listening to this episode of Recorded, which is part of episode of Recorded, which is part of episode of Recorded, which is part of the Gospel Coalition's podcast network. the Gospel Coalition's podcast network. the Gospel Coalition's podcast network. This episode was written by me, [music] This episode was written by me, [music] This episode was written by me, [music] Sarah Xystra, and edited by Colin Sarah Xystra, and edited by Colin Sarah Xystra, and edited by Colin Hansen, Megan Hill, and Cassie Ari. Our Hansen, Megan Hill, and Cassie Ari. Our Hansen, Megan Hill, and Cassie Ari. Our audio editor was Scott Caro, and our audio editor was Scott Caro, and our audio editor was Scott Caro, and our producer was Newbridge Studios. [music] producer was Newbridge Studios. [music] producer was Newbridge Studios. [music] Recorded is made possible by generous Recorded is made possible by generous Recorded is made possible by generous donations from listeners like you. If donations from listeners like you. If donations from listeners like you. If you would like to join me in this work, you would like to join me in this work, you would like to join me in this work, I would [music] love for you to do so at I would [music] love for you to do so at I would [music] love for you to do so at tgc.org/donate.