Why Was Marina Ramos Found Hundreds of Miles From Home?

Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host Ashley Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host Ashley Flowers. Flowers. Flowers. >> Britt. >> Britt. >> Britt. >> And you know what I love more than a >> And you know what I love more than a >> And you know what I love more than a girls trip? girls trip? girls trip? >> Nothing. >> Nothing. >> Nothing. >> Literally nothing. There is something >> Literally nothing. There is something >> Literally nothing. There is something about being with your friends away from about being with your friends away from about being with your friends away from home base and routine. It can make even home base and routine. It can make even home base and routine. It can make even the most mundane things seem to have the most mundane things seem to have the most mundane things seem to have this like spark of adventure. this like spark of adventure. this like spark of adventure. Take for instance, a lone tree in the Take for instance, a lone tree in the Take for instance, a lone tree in the middle of the Arizona desert. Back in middle of the Arizona desert. Back in middle of the Arizona desert. Back in December 1989, four friends from Ohio December 1989, four friends from Ohio December 1989, four friends from Ohio driving through the desert in search of driving through the desert in search of driving through the desert in search of some ghost town marked on their map, some ghost town marked on their map, some ghost town marked on their map, decided to stop and take a picture decided to stop and take a picture decided to stop and take a picture together in front of a tree. Proof of together in front of a tree. Proof of together in front of a tree. Proof of their escapades probably. their escapades probably. their escapades probably. Now they never found the ghost town that Now they never found the ghost town that Now they never found the ghost town that they were looking for. What they found they were looking for. What they found they were looking for. What they found instead, by sheer happenstance, would instead, by sheer happenstance, would instead, by sheer happenstance, would unlock layered decades-long mysteries unlock layered decades-long mysteries unlock layered decades-long mysteries that get tossed around like loose pieces that get tossed around like loose pieces that get tossed around like loose pieces of a puzzle of a puzzle of a puzzle until one investigator finally came until one investigator finally came until one investigator finally came along and slowly started to put those along and slowly started to put those along and slowly started to put those pieces together. pieces together. pieces together. Leading to a shocking discovery in 2025 Leading to a shocking discovery in 2025 Leading to a shocking discovery in 2025 that has her this close to solving the that has her this close to solving the that has her this close to solving the case.

case. case. And you might have the remaining pieces And you might have the remaining pieces And you might have the remaining pieces to solve the mystery of who murdered to solve the mystery of who murdered to solve the mystery of who murdered Marina Ramos. Marina Ramos. Marina Ramos. So buckle up Crime Junkies, you are in So buckle up Crime Junkies, you are in So buckle up Crime Junkies, you are in for a wild ride. It's December 12th, 1989 when those four It's December 12th, 1989 when those four friends turn their car onto a dirt road friends turn their car onto a dirt road friends turn their car onto a dirt road east of highway 93 in the very northern east of highway 93 in the very northern east of highway 93 in the very northern part of Arizona, like close to Nevada. part of Arizona, like close to Nevada. part of Arizona, like close to Nevada. Three miles down is where they spot a Three miles down is where they spot a Three miles down is where they spot a yucca tree that they decide to take a yucca tree that they decide to take a yucca tree that they decide to take a picture in front of. I mean they're the picture in front of. I mean they're the picture in front of. I mean they're the only ones out there save for a dead only ones out there save for a dead only ones out there save for a dead animal that they can see not far off. So animal that they can see not far off. So animal that they can see not far off. So they snap their picture and they hop they snap their picture and they hop they snap their picture and they hop back in their rental car in search of back in their rental car in search of back in their rental car in search of this ghost town marked on their map, but this ghost town marked on their map, but this ghost town marked on their map, but they're not having much luck actually they're not having much luck actually they're not having much luck actually finding this town itself. And not finding this town itself. And not finding this town itself. And not wanting to stray too far in the vast wanting to stray too far in the vast wanting to stray too far in the vast desert, I mean there's no Google Maps at desert, I mean there's no Google Maps at desert, I mean there's no Google Maps at this time, they decide to turn around. this time, they decide to turn around. this time, they decide to turn around. And as they head back in that direction, And as they head back in that direction, And as they head back in that direction, or the direction of the yucca tree, or the direction of the yucca tree, or the direction of the yucca tree, there's just something that like nags at there's just something that like nags at there's just something that like nags at them. There was something about the dead them. There was something about the dead them. There was something about the dead animal that was bothering them. I don't animal that was bothering them. I don't animal that was bothering them. I don't know what, maybe the same mysterious know what, maybe the same mysterious know what, maybe the same mysterious force that pulled them to the tree to force that pulled them to the tree to force that pulled them to the tree to begin with, but they decide to go back begin with, but they decide to go back begin with, but they decide to go back and have another look.

and have another look. and have another look. But it's no animal. It is a naked woman But it's no animal. It is a naked woman But it's no animal. It is a naked woman laying dead in the road, and it's likely laying dead in the road, and it's likely laying dead in the road, and it's likely only because of them that she was ever only because of them that she was ever only because of them that she was ever found. Now it looks like this woman found. Now it looks like this woman found. Now it looks like this woman hasn't been out there a long even though hasn't been out there a long even though hasn't been out there a long even though they don't see anyone coming or going they don't see anyone coming or going they don't see anyone coming or going from any direction. They still don't from any direction. They still don't from any direction. They still don't want to get out of their cars as you can want to get out of their cars as you can want to get out of their cars as you can imagine. Now they know they need to imagine. Now they know they need to imagine. Now they know they need to notify authorities, but it's going to be notify authorities, but it's going to be notify authorities, but it's going to be a hike to the nearest town of Kingman, a hike to the nearest town of Kingman, a hike to the nearest town of Kingman, Arizona, so they snap some pictures of Arizona, so they snap some pictures of Arizona, so they snap some pictures of the woman's body from the car. I assume the woman's body from the car. I assume the woman's body from the car. I assume just in case like she's gone by the time just in case like she's gone by the time just in case like she's gone by the time they can get police back out there, or they can get police back out there, or they can get police back out there, or maybe as proof to police like so they maybe as proof to police like so they maybe as proof to police like so they would take them seriously. But deputies would take them seriously. But deputies would take them seriously. But deputies with the Mohave County Sheriff's Office with the Mohave County Sheriff's Office with the Mohave County Sheriff's Office don't brush them off. Right after don't brush them off. Right after don't brush them off. Right after getting the report, they hop in their getting the report, they hop in their getting the report, they hop in their cars to follow the women back out to the cars to follow the women back out to the cars to follow the women back out to the body, which I can't reiterate enough is body, which I can't reiterate enough is body, which I can't reiterate enough is truly out in the middle of nowhere. I truly out in the middle of nowhere. I truly out in the middle of nowhere. I mean today the closest paved road is mean today the closest paved road is mean today the closest paved road is White Hills Road, and it's over 200 ft White Hills Road, and it's over 200 ft White Hills Road, and it's over 200 ft away, but even that was a dirt road back away, but even that was a dirt road back away, but even that was a dirt road back then, and the highway is miles off.

then, and the highway is miles off. then, and the highway is miles off. Otherwise there are just shrubs and Otherwise there are just shrubs and Otherwise there are just shrubs and trees nearby and mountains in the trees nearby and mountains in the trees nearby and mountains in the distance. But shockingly, at least to distance. But shockingly, at least to distance. But shockingly, at least to me, is that the detectives conclude that me, is that the detectives conclude that me, is that the detectives conclude that the woman wasn't just dumped there. She the woman wasn't just dumped there. She the woman wasn't just dumped there. She was murdered right there where she was was murdered right there where she was was murdered right there where she was found and violently just some 6 to 24 found and violently just some 6 to 24 found and violently just some 6 to 24 hours before being discovered. It was hours before being discovered. It was hours before being discovered. It was ultimately blood loss that killed her. ultimately blood loss that killed her. ultimately blood loss that killed her. There are blunt force injuries all over There are blunt force injuries all over There are blunt force injuries all over her body and slash marks at her neck. her body and slash marks at her neck. her body and slash marks at her neck. Whatever clothing she was likely wearing Whatever clothing she was likely wearing Whatever clothing she was likely wearing at some point is nowhere in sight. at some point is nowhere in sight. at some point is nowhere in sight. Likely cut off her with the same kind of Likely cut off her with the same kind of Likely cut off her with the same kind of knife that was used to slash her throat. knife that was used to slash her throat. knife that was used to slash her throat. Because they did find one piece of a bra Because they did find one piece of a bra Because they did find one piece of a bra strap which they collect. And there's strap which they collect. And there's strap which they collect. And there's nothing that could easily be used to nothing that could easily be used to nothing that could easily be used to identify this woman. I mean the only identify this woman. I mean the only identify this woman. I mean the only items that they find way out there are items that they find way out there are items that they find way out there are this empty Coke bottle and a long piece this empty Coke bottle and a long piece this empty Coke bottle and a long piece of black yarn. And some used toilet of black yarn. And some used toilet of black yarn. And some used toilet paper near a spot where it looks like paper near a spot where it looks like paper near a spot where it looks like somebody like did their business right somebody like did their business right somebody like did their business right in the sand.

in the sand. in the sand. But the real clues were left behind in But the real clues were left behind in But the real clues were left behind in the desert sand itself. the desert sand itself. the desert sand itself. Tire marks, drag marks, and what they Tire marks, drag marks, and what they Tire marks, drag marks, and what they say are two sets of shoe prints. And I say are two sets of shoe prints. And I say are two sets of shoe prints. And I have to show you these pictures because have to show you these pictures because have to show you these pictures because these are some of the most well-defined these are some of the most well-defined these are some of the most well-defined crime scene shoe prints that I have ever crime scene shoe prints that I have ever crime scene shoe prints that I have ever seen in my entire life. seen in my entire life. seen in my entire life. >> Um >> Um >> Um And there's more than just this one And there's more than just this one And there's more than just this one picture, right? picture, right? picture, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like you can almost see like what the >> Like you can almost see like what the >> Like you can almost see like what the brand is on some of these. brand is on some of these. brand is on some of these. >> Not not almost. They could tell. The one >> Not not almost. They could tell. The one >> Not not almost. They could tell. The one that you're looking at, they determined that you're looking at, they determined that you're looking at, they determined says Nike. That one is a size 10 and 1/2 says Nike. That one is a size 10 and 1/2 says Nike. That one is a size 10 and 1/2 and based on the stride and marks in the and based on the stride and marks in the and based on the stride and marks in the sand, trackers determined that the sand, trackers determined that the sand, trackers determined that the person who was wearing the Nike shoe was person who was wearing the Nike shoe was person who was wearing the Nike shoe was between 5 ft 10 and 6 ft 2. Now, the between 5 ft 10 and 6 ft 2. Now, the between 5 ft 10 and 6 ft 2. Now, the other shoe, that is a size seven. And other shoe, that is a size seven. And other shoe, that is a size seven. And the person who left that left a shorter the person who left that left a shorter the person who left that left a shorter stride which makes them believe that stride which makes them believe that stride which makes them believe that they're in the range of like 5 4, maybe they're in the range of like 5 4, maybe they're in the range of like 5 4, maybe like 5 8. like 5 8. like 5 8. >> And size seven, is that a men's seven or >> And size seven, is that a men's seven or >> And size seven, is that a men's seven or a women's seven? Cuz those are like a women's seven? Cuz those are like a women's seven? Cuz those are like different.

different. different. >> Okay. I have to ask about the other shoe >> Okay. I have to ask about the other shoe >> Okay. I have to ask about the other shoe prints. prints. prints. >> I'm not losing my mind, right? Like >> I'm not losing my mind, right? Like >> I'm not losing my mind, right? Like there are distinctly, I mean three or there are distinctly, I mean three or there are distinctly, I mean three or four different prints, right? four different prints, right? four different prints, right? >> So this like there's definitely like >> So this like there's definitely like >> So this like there's definitely like shoes that don't match either of these shoes that don't match either of these shoes that don't match either of these prints in here. prints in here. prints in here. >> image I sent you, like they only talk >> image I sent you, like they only talk >> image I sent you, like they only talk about two prints like ever. That the about two prints like ever. That the about two prints like ever. That the trackers only ID'd two people walking trackers only ID'd two people walking trackers only ID'd two people walking around. around. around. I don't know if the sand is like playing I don't know if the sand is like playing I don't know if the sand is like playing tricks on me or what, but like tricks on me or what, but like tricks on me or what, but like like there's just it looks like like there's just it looks like like there's just it looks like and maybe they've I mean my like hopeful and maybe they've I mean my like hopeful and maybe they've I mean my like hopeful heart is like maybe they've like ruled heart is like maybe they've like ruled heart is like maybe they've like ruled them off as in investigators prints or them off as in investigators prints or them off as in investigators prints or something, but like but I don't know. So something, but like but I don't know. So something, but like but I don't know. So like maybe again like I said there are like maybe again like I said there are like maybe again like I said there are some where I'm like if you go to the some where I'm like if you go to the some where I'm like if you go to the other picture, there are some other picture, there are some other picture, there are some um where I'm like okay the pattern looks um where I'm like okay the pattern looks um where I'm like okay the pattern looks distinctly different. It still looks distinctly different. It still looks distinctly different. It still looks like sneakers but distinctly different. like sneakers but distinctly different. like sneakers but distinctly different. And then look at the top of that one. I And then look at the top of that one. I And then look at the top of that one. I think this one looks like it has a think this one looks like it has a think this one looks like it has a proper heel on it. proper heel on it. proper heel on it. Like not a sneaker at all. Like not a sneaker at all. Like not a sneaker at all. >> What is that? Now I am pretty convinced >> What is that? Now I am pretty convinced >> What is that? Now I am pretty convinced that the Nike shoe is either an Air that the Nike shoe is either an Air that the Nike shoe is either an Air Jordan or a Nike Dunk. Now some of our Jordan or a Nike Dunk. Now some of our Jordan or a Nike Dunk. Now some of our Crime Junkies out there I know are Crime Junkies out there I know are Crime Junkies out there I know are sneakerheads so maybe they'll know. I'm sneakerheads so maybe they'll know. I'm sneakerheads so maybe they'll know. I'm actually going to post these pictures on actually going to post these pictures on actually going to post these pictures on social media so people can see and social media so people can see and social media so people can see and analyze them with us.

analyze them with us. analyze them with us. Now the tire tracks and the drag marks Now the tire tracks and the drag marks Now the tire tracks and the drag marks also tell an interesting story all on also tell an interesting story all on also tell an interesting story all on their own. their own. their own. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I actually have a picture of the tire >> I actually have a picture of the tire >> I actually have a picture of the tire marks too that's included in with one of marks too that's included in with one of marks too that's included in with one of the the shoe prints. And I have some of the the shoe prints. And I have some of the the shoe prints. And I have some of the original crime scene diagrams which the original crime scene diagrams which the original crime scene diagrams which show that the killers drove eastbound show that the killers drove eastbound show that the killers drove eastbound into the crime scene, stopped, dragged into the crime scene, stopped, dragged into the crime scene, stopped, dragged this woman from the car, got back in the this woman from the car, got back in the this woman from the car, got back in the car, and then ran her over. Then they car, and then ran her over. Then they car, and then ran her over. Then they say that they got back out of the car say that they got back out of the car say that they got back out of the car after they have run her over and that is after they have run her over and that is after they have run her over and that is when they slashed her throat. when they slashed her throat. when they slashed her throat. And they didn't get out in a hurry. And they didn't get out in a hurry. And they didn't get out in a hurry. After they killed her, that is when one After they killed her, that is when one After they killed her, that is when one of them walks a little ways away and of them walks a little ways away and of them walks a little ways away and proceeds to go to the bathroom out there proceeds to go to the bathroom out there proceeds to go to the bathroom out there in the desert. And then they leave in the desert. And then they leave in the desert. And then they leave heading westbound which is the same way heading westbound which is the same way heading westbound which is the same way that they came. So it's not like they're that they came. So it's not like they're that they came. So it's not like they're passing through this area. passing through this area. passing through this area. >> Yeah, so they didn't just like drop her >> Yeah, so they didn't just like drop her >> Yeah, so they didn't just like drop her on the way to somewhere, they came there on the way to somewhere, they came there on the way to somewhere, they came there specifically just to kill and leave her specifically just to kill and leave her specifically just to kill and leave her body. body. body. >> Yes. Now investigators lose the tire >> Yes. Now investigators lose the tire >> Yes. Now investigators lose the tire tracks at the main road. So it's tracks at the main road. So it's tracks at the main road. So it's unfortunately impossible to tell if they unfortunately impossible to tell if they unfortunately impossible to tell if they headed toward Kingman, Arizona or to Las headed toward Kingman, Arizona or to Las headed toward Kingman, Arizona or to Las Vegas, Nevada. Basically, those are the Vegas, Nevada. Basically, those are the Vegas, Nevada. Basically, those are the two cities that you would head to from two cities that you would head to from two cities that you would head to from here, even if you were going beyond here, even if you were going beyond here, even if you were going beyond them.

them. them. >> Right, cuz this is in the middle of >> Right, cuz this is in the middle of >> Right, cuz this is in the middle of nowhere. nowhere. nowhere. >> yes. But this scene, however rural, is >> yes. But this scene, however rural, is >> yes. But this scene, however rural, is only about an hour from Vegas. So, only about an hour from Vegas. So, only about an hour from Vegas. So, detectives in Mohave County, Arizona are detectives in Mohave County, Arizona are detectives in Mohave County, Arizona are quite accustomed to homicide victims quite accustomed to homicide victims quite accustomed to homicide victims being left in their jurisdiction. being left in their jurisdiction. being left in their jurisdiction. Actually, according to reporting from Actually, according to reporting from Actually, according to reporting from the Arizona Republic, this is like the the Arizona Republic, this is like the the Arizona Republic, this is like the fourth body that they have found in fourth body that they have found in fourth body that they have found in their county in as many months. So, as their county in as many months. So, as their county in as many months. So, as much evidence as they might have that much evidence as they might have that much evidence as they might have that seems promising, they know from the jump seems promising, they know from the jump seems promising, they know from the jump that solving this case, even ID'ing that solving this case, even ID'ing that solving this case, even ID'ing their victim, is going to be no easy their victim, is going to be no easy their victim, is going to be no easy feat. And the truth is some assumptions feat. And the truth is some assumptions feat. And the truth is some assumptions are probably being made off the jump are probably being made off the jump are probably being made off the jump about who this woman is and how she about who this woman is and how she about who this woman is and how she ended up there. They thought that she ended up there. They thought that she ended up there. They thought that she could be what they called a Vegas girl could be what they called a Vegas girl could be what they called a Vegas girl who basically got caught up in something who basically got caught up in something who basically got caught up in something bad. bad. bad. But the autopsy ends up throwing that But the autopsy ends up throwing that But the autopsy ends up throwing that into question. Cuz there are no drugs or into question. Cuz there are no drugs or into question. Cuz there are no drugs or alcohol in her system. What she has is alcohol in her system. What she has is alcohol in her system. What she has is milk in her ducts, meaning that she must milk in her ducts, meaning that she must milk in her ducts, meaning that she must have given birth somewhat recently. And have given birth somewhat recently. And have given birth somewhat recently. And they can tell that she had had other they can tell that she had had other they can tell that she had had other kids, too. So, surely someone has to be kids, too. So, surely someone has to be kids, too. So, surely someone has to be missing this woman.

missing this woman. missing this woman. >> Yeah, and there's probably a breastfed >> Yeah, and there's probably a breastfed >> Yeah, and there's probably a breastfed baby out there somewhere like missing baby out there somewhere like missing baby out there somewhere like missing their mom. their mom. their mom. >> You would think, but there are no >> You would think, but there are no >> You would think, but there are no missing persons reports in the missing persons reports in the missing persons reports in the surrounding areas that match this surrounding areas that match this surrounding areas that match this 20-something female with dark hair and 20-something female with dark hair and 20-something female with dark hair and medium complexion. Without knowing who medium complexion. Without knowing who medium complexion. Without knowing who this woman is, the motive for the crime this woman is, the motive for the crime this woman is, the motive for the crime is as perplexing as anything else. I is as perplexing as anything else. I is as perplexing as anything else. I mean, this was so over-the-top violent mean, this was so over-the-top violent mean, this was so over-the-top violent that it feels personal. that it feels personal. that it feels personal. >> was it sexually motivated? >> was it sexually motivated? >> was it sexually motivated? >> I mean, it could have been because, I >> I mean, it could have been because, I >> I mean, it could have been because, I mean, she's found naked, right? But they mean, she's found naked, right? But they mean, she's found naked, right? But they don't find clear evidence of sexual don't find clear evidence of sexual don't find clear evidence of sexual assault. I mean, they checked at assault. I mean, they checked at assault. I mean, they checked at autopsy, and first they think that they autopsy, and first they think that they autopsy, and first they think that they did find semen, but later, whatever it did find semen, but later, whatever it did find semen, but later, whatever it is is tested, they don't get a male is is tested, they don't get a male is is tested, they don't get a male profile out of it. So, no one is sure profile out of it. So, no one is sure profile out of it. So, no one is sure what that is. And today, that is listed what that is. And today, that is listed what that is. And today, that is listed as unknown biological fluids that they as unknown biological fluids that they as unknown biological fluids that they got via abdominal scraping. got via abdominal scraping. got via abdominal scraping. >> And were they able to run prints for her >> And were they able to run prints for her >> And were they able to run prints for her to try to ID her that way? Like her to try to ID her that way? Like her to try to ID her that way? Like her fingerprints? fingerprints? fingerprints? >> of a manual process back then, no like >> of a manual process back then, no like >> of a manual process back then, no like national system. But, they had them run national system. But, they had them run national system. But, they had them run against databases in Arizona and the against databases in Arizona and the against databases in Arizona and the surrounding states, including Nevada.

surrounding states, including Nevada. surrounding states, including Nevada. Don't get any hits. Don't get any hits. Don't get any hits. >> Which kind of contradicts the Vegas girl >> Which kind of contradicts the Vegas girl >> Which kind of contradicts the Vegas girl thing even more. thing even more. thing even more. >> And her prints do give them another >> And her prints do give them another >> And her prints do give them another small clue. small clue. small clue. There were some partial prints that they There were some partial prints that they There were some partial prints that they lifted off the Coke bottle that they lifted off the Coke bottle that they lifted off the Coke bottle that they found at the scene. Not enough to like found at the scene. Not enough to like found at the scene. Not enough to like send off out of state or even put into send off out of state or even put into send off out of state or even put into their database, but they're good enough their database, but they're good enough their database, but they're good enough to do direct comparisons with. So, they to do direct comparisons with. So, they to do direct comparisons with. So, they find out right away that the prints do find out right away that the prints do find out right away that the prints do not belong to their victim, meaning that not belong to their victim, meaning that not belong to their victim, meaning that they might be useful in putting a they might be useful in putting a they might be useful in putting a suspect at the scene someday. suspect at the scene someday. suspect at the scene someday. Unfortunately, as wonderful as those Unfortunately, as wonderful as those Unfortunately, as wonderful as those shoe and tire impressions were at the shoe and tire impressions were at the shoe and tire impressions were at the scene, that can't get them much. Like, scene, that can't get them much. Like, scene, that can't get them much. Like, it's a common shoe in a common size, a it's a common shoe in a common size, a it's a common shoe in a common size, a common car. Maybe helpful again if they common car. Maybe helpful again if they common car. Maybe helpful again if they ever find a suspect to compare all this ever find a suspect to compare all this ever find a suspect to compare all this to, but to, but to, but >> Who was that one? >> Who was that one? >> Who was that one? >> It's so useless. >> It's so useless. >> It's so useless. So, over the next year, investigators So, over the next year, investigators So, over the next year, investigators put their focus on trying to identify put their focus on trying to identify put their focus on trying to identify their victim. At least they have a their victim. At least they have a their victim. At least they have a description, a young Hispanic woman, description, a young Hispanic woman, description, a young Hispanic woman, short dark hair, who has had children short dark hair, who has had children short dark hair, who has had children before and was still making milk for a before and was still making milk for a before and was still making milk for a baby when she was murdered. They baby when she was murdered. They baby when she was murdered. They distribute that description through distribute that description through distribute that description through teletypes to agencies all around the teletypes to agencies all around the teletypes to agencies all around the west, hoping to get a hit. But west, hoping to get a hit. But west, hoping to get a hit. But surprisingly, this woman hasn't been surprisingly, this woman hasn't been surprisingly, this woman hasn't been reported missing, whoever she is.

reported missing, whoever she is. reported missing, whoever she is. So, not being able to ID her, So, not being able to ID her, So, not being able to ID her, they try to build a picture of their they try to build a picture of their they try to build a picture of their killer by asking the FBI for a criminal killer by asking the FBI for a criminal killer by asking the FBI for a criminal profile. profile. profile. Now, they don't end up getting one. I Now, they don't end up getting one. I Now, they don't end up getting one. I don't know why. Like, the details they don't know why. Like, the details they don't know why. Like, the details they had might not have been enough, but the had might not have been enough, but the had might not have been enough, but the FBI does have one takeaway after FBI does have one takeaway after FBI does have one takeaway after reviewing the information that they reviewing the information that they reviewing the information that they sent. They think that the Mojave Desert sent. They think that the Mojave Desert sent. They think that the Mojave Desert case sounds a lot like some other cases case sounds a lot like some other cases case sounds a lot like some other cases that they just solved up in Washington. >> Dark Downeast began with one microphone >> Dark Downeast began with one microphone and a simple idea. There's always more and a simple idea. There's always more and a simple idea. There's always more to the story than what made the news. As to the story than what made the news. As to the story than what made the news. As a lifelong New Englander, I wanted to a lifelong New Englander, I wanted to a lifelong New Englander, I wanted to uncover the details, unexpected turns, uncover the details, unexpected turns, uncover the details, unexpected turns, and human stories behind the cases that and human stories behind the cases that and human stories behind the cases that have stayed with our communities for have stayed with our communities for have stayed with our communities for years. I'm Kylie Low and this is Dark years. I'm Kylie Low and this is Dark years. I'm Kylie Low and this is Dark Downeast. >> Today in 2026, Joseph Michael Nissenson >> Today in 2026, Joseph Michael Nissenson is 75 years old, but he was only 38 back is 75 years old, but he was only 38 back is 75 years old, but he was only 38 back in 1990 when the FBI was making a in 1990 when the FBI was making a in 1990 when the FBI was making a possible connection between crimes that possible connection between crimes that possible connection between crimes that he committed in Washington and he committed in Washington and he committed in Washington and California, and the details of the crime California, and the details of the crime California, and the details of the crime committed out in Arizona. That year he'd committed out in Arizona. That year he'd committed out in Arizona. That year he'd been charged with two murders that make been charged with two murders that make been charged with two murders that make him pretty interesting to investigators.

him pretty interesting to investigators. him pretty interesting to investigators. Now, the murders were from May and Now, the murders were from May and Now, the murders were from May and August of 1989. So, same year as our August of 1989. So, same year as our August of 1989. So, same year as our Arizona case. And after that second Arizona case. And after that second Arizona case. And after that second murder in August, he apparently took off murder in August, he apparently took off murder in August, he apparently took off from Washington and headed south working from Washington and headed south working from Washington and headed south working as a truck driver. So, this man was all as a truck driver. So, this man was all as a truck driver. So, this man was all over the place. But, the interesting over the place. But, the interesting over the place. But, the interesting thing is that even though he was a thing is that even though he was a thing is that even though he was a suspect in other homicides as well, he suspect in other homicides as well, he suspect in other homicides as well, he got charged in Washington because his got charged in Washington because his got charged in Washington because his wife said that she witnessed both wife said that she witnessed both wife said that she witnessed both crimes. She was there in one instance as crimes. She was there in one instance as crimes. She was there in one instance as Joseph got the victim into their van for Joseph got the victim into their van for Joseph got the victim into their van for sadistic sex acts and then killed her. sadistic sex acts and then killed her. sadistic sex acts and then killed her. >> Uh two sets of footprints. >> Uh two sets of footprints. >> Uh two sets of footprints. >> Yes, that is what I think is so >> Yes, that is what I think is so >> Yes, that is what I think is so interesting. Now, it is not a smoking interesting. Now, it is not a smoking interesting. Now, it is not a smoking gun. gun. gun. >> Okay, but like when you don't have much >> Okay, but like when you don't have much >> Okay, but like when you don't have much else. else. else. >> True. And again, I go back to like those >> True. And again, I go back to like those >> True. And again, I go back to like those were two like male footprints. I don't were two like male footprints. I don't were two like male footprints. I don't know. But yes, when we have nothing know. But yes, when we have nothing know. But yes, when we have nothing else, let's try this. else, let's try this. else, let's try this. Now, what I also find interesting about Now, what I also find interesting about Now, what I also find interesting about Joseph is that he has ties to Mohave Joseph is that he has ties to Mohave Joseph is that he has ties to Mohave County, Arizona. Not only do they find a County, Arizona. Not only do they find a County, Arizona. Not only do they find a prior criminal charge on his records prior criminal charge on his records prior criminal charge on his records like in there from 1987, but they hear like in there from 1987, but they hear like in there from 1987, but they hear that he used to live there with his that he used to live there with his that he used to live there with his friend Henry Stob.

friend Henry Stob. friend Henry Stob. So, they track down Henry, who So, they track down Henry, who So, they track down Henry, who interestingly had been arrested in interestingly had been arrested in interestingly had been arrested in Nevada just a week after the Jane Doe Nevada just a week after the Jane Doe Nevada just a week after the Jane Doe was found. He got an app for using this was found. He got an app for using this was found. He got an app for using this like cheating device. like cheating device. like cheating device. >> What is that? >> What is that? >> What is that? >> It um he they think he was working at a >> It um he they think he was working at a >> It um he they think he was working at a casino and it was like this 1980s method casino and it was like this 1980s method casino and it was like this 1980s method of stealing money like in the industry. of stealing money like in the industry. of stealing money like in the industry. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> But Henry lived in Mohave Valley in >> But Henry lived in Mohave Valley in >> But Henry lived in Mohave Valley in 1987. So, he's like familiar with the 1987. So, he's like familiar with the 1987. So, he's like familiar with the area that we're talking about. And he area that we're talking about. And he area that we're talking about. And he tells police that his buddy Joseph lived tells police that his buddy Joseph lived tells police that his buddy Joseph lived with him for two months back then. with him for two months back then. with him for two months back then. But he says he hasn't seen him since. But he says he hasn't seen him since. But he says he hasn't seen him since. >> Still means that Joseph could have known >> Still means that Joseph could have known >> Still means that Joseph could have known the area though. the area though. the area though. >> Right. But the thing is they show him a >> Right. But the thing is they show him a >> Right. But the thing is they show him a picture of their Jane Doe and no picture of their Jane Doe and no picture of their Jane Doe and no surprise, Henry says that he doesn't surprise, Henry says that he doesn't surprise, Henry says that he doesn't recognize her. recognize her. recognize her. Now, they do some due diligence and try Now, they do some due diligence and try Now, they do some due diligence and try comparing Joseph's prints to the blurry comparing Joseph's prints to the blurry comparing Joseph's prints to the blurry partial ones that they lifted from the partial ones that they lifted from the partial ones that they lifted from the crime scene Coke bottle, which like by crime scene Coke bottle, which like by crime scene Coke bottle, which like by the way may or may not even be the way may or may not even be the way may or may not even be connected. But his prints weren't a connected. But his prints weren't a connected. But his prints weren't a match. Neither were Henry's, they try match. Neither were Henry's, they try match. Neither were Henry's, they try his too. And since there was nothing his too. And since there was nothing his too. And since there was nothing else like really solid linking him to else like really solid linking him to else like really solid linking him to the crime. And again, they're like oh the crime. And again, they're like oh the crime. And again, they're like oh two people, him and his wife were at two people, him and his wife were at two people, him and his wife were at this one, maybe two people at this one.

this one, maybe two people at this one. this one, maybe two people at this one. Like it's Like it's Like it's it's a loose connection. They basically it's a loose connection. They basically it's a loose connection. They basically just like let the lead end there. just like let the lead end there. just like let the lead end there. >> Did they go talk to him? >> Did they go talk to him? >> Did they go talk to him? >> Not back then, no. Though I can't say >> Not back then, no. Though I can't say >> Not back then, no. Though I can't say why. why. why. What I can say for reasons that we'll What I can say for reasons that we'll What I can say for reasons that we'll get into later is that investigators get into later is that investigators get into later is that investigators today have totally ruled him out. He is today have totally ruled him out. He is today have totally ruled him out. He is still sitting in a California prison for still sitting in a California prison for still sitting in a California prison for those two other murders and more that those two other murders and more that those two other murders and more that they have since connected him to. And we they have since connected him to. And we they have since connected him to. And we tried to reach him for this episode, did tried to reach him for this episode, did tried to reach him for this episode, did not hear back. Now, by September 1991, not hear back. Now, by September 1991, not hear back. Now, by September 1991, the Jane Doe case has gone cold in every the Jane Doe case has gone cold in every the Jane Doe case has gone cold in every sense of the word. No victim name, no sense of the word. No victim name, no sense of the word. No victim name, no killer's name. killer's name. killer's name. The case got shelved, collecting 30 The case got shelved, collecting 30 The case got shelved, collecting 30 years worth of dust. Until 2019, years worth of dust. Until 2019, years worth of dust. Until 2019, when Mohave County forms a special when Mohave County forms a special when Mohave County forms a special investigations unit, basically like a investigations unit, basically like a investigations unit, basically like a cold case squad. And investigator Laurie cold case squad. And investigator Laurie cold case squad. And investigator Laurie Miller and her partner get assigned the Miller and her partner get assigned the Miller and her partner get assigned the glamorous, but deeply necessary task of glamorous, but deeply necessary task of glamorous, but deeply necessary task of reading and digitizing all 395 reading and digitizing all 395 reading and digitizing all 395 case files that are labeled as cold case files that are labeled as cold case files that are labeled as cold within the department. Which as you can within the department. Which as you can within the department. Which as you can imagine, imagine, imagine, takes significant time, like years.

takes significant time, like years. takes significant time, like years. >> Yeah, I'm like imagining like the movie >> Yeah, I'm like imagining like the movie >> Yeah, I'm like imagining like the movie montage of two detectives like hold up montage of two detectives like hold up montage of two detectives like hold up in a dark room going through like in a dark room going through like in a dark room going through like hundreds of pages of papers and files. hundreds of pages of papers and files. hundreds of pages of papers and files. >> two years later, by the time that they >> two years later, by the time that they >> two years later, by the time that they have sorted through all the non-murders, have sorted through all the non-murders, have sorted through all the non-murders, like the accidental deaths, the like the accidental deaths, the like the accidental deaths, the suicides, they end up with 66 actual suicides, they end up with 66 actual suicides, they end up with 66 actual cold case homicides to rework, which is cold case homicides to rework, which is cold case homicides to rework, which is still a significant still a significant still a significant >> number. >> number. >> number. >> you, like this area, people were it was >> you, like this area, people were it was >> you, like this area, people were it was a kind of a body dump. a kind of a body dump. a kind of a body dump. But the 1989 Jane Doe case from the But the 1989 Jane Doe case from the But the 1989 Jane Doe case from the desert is one of them. desert is one of them. desert is one of them. And it's 2021 by now. So, to bring the And it's 2021 by now. So, to bring the And it's 2021 by now. So, to bring the case into the modern era, Laurie enters case into the modern era, Laurie enters case into the modern era, Laurie enters it into NamUs and to NCIC. it into NamUs and to NCIC. it into NamUs and to NCIC. >> Wait, so that was never done? >> Wait, so that was never done? >> Wait, so that was never done? >> No, when I'm serious when I say that >> No, when I'm serious when I say that >> No, when I'm serious when I say that like nothing happened on this case from like nothing happened on this case from like nothing happened on this case from 1991 to 2021. 1991 to 2021. 1991 to 2021. Once her victim has been entered, then Once her victim has been entered, then Once her victim has been entered, then she starts going through the physical she starts going through the physical she starts going through the physical evidence and calling crime labs to see evidence and calling crime labs to see evidence and calling crime labs to see what she could send, how quickly she what she could send, how quickly she what she could send, how quickly she could get evidence tested. could get evidence tested. could get evidence tested. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And her jackpot is on the victim's >> And her jackpot is on the victim's >> And her jackpot is on the victim's fingerprints, which she was able to get fingerprints, which she was able to get fingerprints, which she was able to get entered in some of the new databases.

entered in some of the new databases. entered in some of the new databases. Just like that, Desert Jane Doe has a Just like that, Desert Jane Doe has a Just like that, Desert Jane Doe has a name. name. name. Maria Ortiz. Maria Ortiz. Maria Ortiz. And the only thing that Lori could find And the only thing that Lori could find And the only thing that Lori could find on this Maria is a June 1989 arrest for on this Maria is a June 1989 arrest for on this Maria is a June 1989 arrest for shoplifting in Bakersfield, California. shoplifting in Bakersfield, California. shoplifting in Bakersfield, California. >> And how far away from that is >> And how far away from that is >> And how far away from that is >> From like Mojave? It's like it's like 5 >> From like Mojave? It's like it's like 5 >> From like Mojave? It's like it's like 5 or 6 hours. or 6 hours. or 6 hours. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, she calls up Bakersfield PD and they >> So, she calls up Bakersfield PD and they >> So, she calls up Bakersfield PD and they tell her that the report for the tell her that the report for the tell her that the report for the shoplifting arrest has been purged. But, shoplifting arrest has been purged. But, shoplifting arrest has been purged. But, authorities in California are able to authorities in California are able to authorities in California are able to see the name of a relative in their old see the name of a relative in their old see the name of a relative in their old files. This like cousin of Maria's named files. This like cousin of Maria's named files. This like cousin of Maria's named Esther who lives in Tennessee. Esther who lives in Tennessee. Esther who lives in Tennessee. So, after some help from like other So, after some help from like other So, after some help from like other agencies, Lori is relieved to find out agencies, Lori is relieved to find out agencies, Lori is relieved to find out that Esther is still alive and she's that Esther is still alive and she's that Esther is still alive and she's like holding her breath when she gets like holding her breath when she gets like holding her breath when she gets Esther on the phone hoping that she has Esther on the phone hoping that she has Esther on the phone hoping that she has some information on her cousin. some information on her cousin. some information on her cousin. But, Esther's response is not at all But, Esther's response is not at all But, Esther's response is not at all what Lori expects because she says, what Lori expects because she says, what Lori expects because she says, "I don't know a Maria Ortiz."

"I don't know a Maria Ortiz." "I don't know a Maria Ortiz." >> Oh, oh, but your relative? >> Oh, oh, but your relative? >> Oh, oh, but your relative? >> But, in the next breath, Esther says, >> But, in the next breath, Esther says, >> But, in the next breath, Esther says, "But, I do have a cousin who went MIA in "But, I do have a cousin who went MIA in "But, I do have a cousin who went MIA in 1989. 1989. 1989. Her name Her name Her name was Marina Ramos." was Marina Ramos." was Marina Ramos." And Marina did sometimes go by different And Marina did sometimes go by different And Marina did sometimes go by different names including Maria. names including Maria. names including Maria. Esther explains that in August of '89, Esther explains that in August of '89, Esther explains that in August of '89, they were all living in Bakersfield, they were all living in Bakersfield, they were all living in Bakersfield, like in that area of California, and one like in that area of California, and one like in that area of California, and one day, Marina leaves with a man and just day, Marina leaves with a man and just day, Marina leaves with a man and just like that, poof, never seen again. like that, poof, never seen again. like that, poof, never seen again. >> And there were no missing person >> And there were no missing person >> And there were no missing person reports. reports. reports. >> They never filed one because Esther says >> They never filed one because Esther says >> They never filed one because Esther says that Marina actually kind of was the that Marina actually kind of was the that Marina actually kind of was the type to leave and start a new life. type to leave and start a new life. type to leave and start a new life. Esther says that she loved her cousin, Esther says that she loved her cousin, Esther says that she loved her cousin, but she has no doubt that she was a bit but she has no doubt that she was a bit but she has no doubt that she was a bit of a wild card. So, of a wild card. So, of a wild card. So, >> this whole time her family thought that >> this whole time her family thought that >> this whole time her family thought that she just she just she just left and started a new life. left and started a new life. left and started a new life. >> Pretty much. Yeah. And it's not like >> Pretty much. Yeah. And it's not like >> Pretty much. Yeah. And it's not like they weren't worried about her, but they they weren't worried about her, but they they weren't worried about her, but they mistakenly thought that no news was good mistakenly thought that no news was good mistakenly thought that no news was good news. But it turned out to be the worst news. But it turned out to be the worst news. But it turned out to be the worst news, just delayed.

news, just delayed. news, just delayed. So, Lori begins like peppering Esther So, Lori begins like peppering Esther So, Lori begins like peppering Esther with questions about Marina and her with questions about Marina and her with questions about Marina and her life. Does she have any ties to Arizona? life. Does she have any ties to Arizona? life. Does she have any ties to Arizona? The answer is no, but Esther has some The answer is no, but Esther has some The answer is no, but Esther has some questions for Lori, too. Her main one questions for Lori, too. Her main one questions for Lori, too. Her main one being, "If you found Marina, did you being, "If you found Marina, did you being, "If you found Marina, did you find her missing daughters?" find her missing daughters?" find her missing daughters?" To which Lori responds, To which Lori responds, To which Lori responds, "What daughters?" "What daughters?" "What daughters?" So, Esther went on to fill in so many So, Esther went on to fill in so many So, Esther went on to fill in so many blanks about Marina's life, but in doing blanks about Marina's life, but in doing blanks about Marina's life, but in doing so, it just deepened the mystery. so, it just deepened the mystery. so, it just deepened the mystery. She tells Lori that in 1989, Marina was She tells Lori that in 1989, Marina was She tells Lori that in 1989, Marina was somewhat estranged from her immediate somewhat estranged from her immediate somewhat estranged from her immediate family. In fact, Esther was the one family. In fact, Esther was the one family. In fact, Esther was the one helping watch Marina's two youngest helping watch Marina's two youngest helping watch Marina's two youngest daughters because Marina was worried daughters because Marina was worried daughters because Marina was worried that her immediate family were going to that her immediate family were going to that her immediate family were going to take the girls away from her, like they take the girls away from her, like they take the girls away from her, like they did her first and oldest daughter, did her first and oldest daughter, did her first and oldest daughter, Maria, who stayed actually to live with Maria, who stayed actually to live with Maria, who stayed actually to live with her grandparents in Puerto Rico. You her grandparents in Puerto Rico. You her grandparents in Puerto Rico. You see, Marina's family never really see, Marina's family never really see, Marina's family never really approved of her lifestyle, which I'll approved of her lifestyle, which I'll approved of her lifestyle, which I'll explain in a second. explain in a second. explain in a second. Our reporter Emily interviewed Marina's Our reporter Emily interviewed Marina's Our reporter Emily interviewed Marina's younger sister, Margarita, for this younger sister, Margarita, for this younger sister, Margarita, for this episode. And she confirmed some of the episode. And she confirmed some of the episode. And she confirmed some of the things that Lori was learning on the things that Lori was learning on the things that Lori was learning on the phone that day from Esther. Margarita phone that day from Esther. Margarita phone that day from Esther. Margarita says that their family is from Puerto says that their family is from Puerto says that their family is from Puerto Rico and from Bakersfield, California.

Rico and from Bakersfield, California. Rico and from Bakersfield, California. And they all kind of moved back and And they all kind of moved back and And they all kind of moved back and forth between those two places forth between those two places forth between those two places throughout their lives. And their throughout their lives. And their throughout their lives. And their parents took custody of Marina's oldest parents took custody of Marina's oldest parents took custody of Marina's oldest daughter because Marina was really young daughter because Marina was really young daughter because Marina was really young when she was born, and she wasn't when she was born, and she wasn't when she was born, and she wasn't equipped to care for a newborn. equipped to care for a newborn. equipped to care for a newborn. And it's a bit muddy why Marina's family And it's a bit muddy why Marina's family And it's a bit muddy why Marina's family disapproved of her lifestyle, but disapproved of her lifestyle, but disapproved of her lifestyle, but basically, sounds like she dated a lot basically, sounds like she dated a lot basically, sounds like she dated a lot of different men, and she wanted to go of different men, and she wanted to go of different men, and she wanted to go live in California when her family was live in California when her family was live in California when her family was still in Puerto Rico. And she apparently still in Puerto Rico. And she apparently still in Puerto Rico. And she apparently had no job, no plan to support a baby. had no job, no plan to support a baby. had no job, no plan to support a baby. So, her family wanted to keep the baby. So, her family wanted to keep the baby. So, her family wanted to keep the baby. And Margarita says it wasn't like a big And Margarita says it wasn't like a big And Margarita says it wasn't like a big legal fight or anything. It was more legal fight or anything. It was more legal fight or anything. It was more like, "Hey, if you want to run off and like, "Hey, if you want to run off and like, "Hey, if you want to run off and do whatever you want whenever, do it. do whatever you want whenever, do it. do whatever you want whenever, do it. But you're not taking the baby with you. But you're not taking the baby with you. But you're not taking the baby with you. Like she needs more stability." So she Like she needs more stability." So she Like she needs more stability." So she says their parents still though says their parents still though says their parents still though encourage Marina to visit her daughter encourage Marina to visit her daughter encourage Marina to visit her daughter anytime. anytime. anytime. So at that time, Marina goes to So at that time, Marina goes to So at that time, Marina goes to California to live with her aunt and her California to live with her aunt and her California to live with her aunt and her cousin, Esther. cousin, Esther. cousin, Esther. Now we don't know a ton about Marina's Now we don't know a ton about Marina's Now we don't know a ton about Marina's daily life in Bakersfield. She holds a daily life in Bakersfield. She holds a daily life in Bakersfield. She holds a few jobs, but for the most part she's few jobs, but for the most part she's few jobs, but for the most part she's kind of hopping around from relationship kind of hopping around from relationship kind of hopping around from relationship to relationship, and she ends up having to relationship, and she ends up having to relationship, and she ends up having two more children. One of which was born two more children. One of which was born two more children. One of which was born while she was behind bars for that while she was behind bars for that while she was behind bars for that aforementioned shoplifting arrest in aforementioned shoplifting arrest in aforementioned shoplifting arrest in June of '89. This is how we got to her June of '89. This is how we got to her June of '89. This is how we got to her from her prints.

from her prints. from her prints. Well, when Esther last saw Marina and Well, when Esther last saw Marina and Well, when Esther last saw Marina and her two youngest, it was August of 1989. her two youngest, it was August of 1989. her two youngest, it was August of 1989. Elizabeth was just about 1 years old, Elizabeth was just about 1 years old, Elizabeth was just about 1 years old, and Jasmine was just 2 months old. And and Jasmine was just 2 months old. And and Jasmine was just 2 months old. And Esther says that Marina and the girls Esther says that Marina and the girls Esther says that Marina and the girls drove away with a man named Fernando. drove away with a man named Fernando. drove away with a man named Fernando. And while she doesn't know much about And while she doesn't know much about And while she doesn't know much about this guy, she does remember what he this guy, she does remember what he this guy, she does remember what he looked like. She's even able to give looked like. She's even able to give looked like. She's even able to give enough of a description for an artist enough of a description for an artist enough of a description for an artist rendering of him to be made. He has dark rendering of him to be made. He has dark rendering of him to be made. He has dark hair, like it's like swooped to the hair, like it's like swooped to the hair, like it's like swooped to the side, glasses, full face, and she said side, glasses, full face, and she said side, glasses, full face, and she said he spoke with some sort of accent which he spoke with some sort of accent which he spoke with some sort of accent which made her think that he was either from made her think that he was either from made her think that he was either from Ecuador or maybe Costa Rica. And she'd Ecuador or maybe Costa Rica. And she'd Ecuador or maybe Costa Rica. And she'd seen Marina with him before, which is seen Marina with him before, which is seen Marina with him before, which is how she had one more tidbit to give how she had one more tidbit to give how she had one more tidbit to give Lori. She said that he always wore a Lori. She said that he always wore a Lori. She said that he always wore a suit. Always. Like even if it was 108° suit. Always. Like even if it was 108° suit. Always. Like even if it was 108° outside, this dude is in a suit. outside, this dude is in a suit. outside, this dude is in a suit. >> Did he happen to like to wear Nikes with >> Did he happen to like to wear Nikes with >> Did he happen to like to wear Nikes with his suits? his suits? his suits? >> She didn't She didn't know anything >> She didn't She didn't know anything >> She didn't She didn't know anything about what kind of shoes he wore or even about what kind of shoes he wore or even about what kind of shoes he wore or even his height.

his height. his height. But she remembers the four of them But she remembers the four of them But she remembers the four of them leaving in a black SUV headed for leaving in a black SUV headed for leaving in a black SUV headed for Ontario, California, which is just east Ontario, California, which is just east Ontario, California, which is just east of LA, where she thinks Fernando lived of LA, where she thinks Fernando lived of LA, where she thinks Fernando lived at the time. But after that, she never at the time. But after that, she never at the time. But after that, she never saw or heard from Marina again. saw or heard from Marina again. saw or heard from Marina again. Margarita told us it's not like they Margarita told us it's not like they Margarita told us it's not like they never wondered what happened to Marina. never wondered what happened to Marina. never wondered what happened to Marina. She says they even went out driving She says they even went out driving She says they even went out driving searching for her in Bakersfield way searching for her in Bakersfield way searching for her in Bakersfield way back when. back when. back when. But she was just hoping that her sister But she was just hoping that her sister But she was just hoping that her sister was okay wherever she ended up. was okay wherever she ended up. was okay wherever she ended up. >> So, she's last seen in August? >> So, she's last seen in August? >> So, she's last seen in August? >> Right. So, >> Right. So, >> Right. So, >> Where was she between August and >> Where was she between August and >> Where was she between August and December then of that year? December then of that year? December then of that year? >> Well, that is making the assumption that >> Well, that is making the assumption that >> Well, that is making the assumption that Marina Ramos is really the Mojave Desert Marina Ramos is really the Mojave Desert Marina Ramos is really the Mojave Desert Jane Doe. Remember, fingerprints came Jane Doe. Remember, fingerprints came Jane Doe. Remember, fingerprints came back to another name. back to another name. back to another name. >> Okay, but like what are the odds? >> Okay, but like what are the odds? >> Okay, but like what are the odds? >> And you have to be sure in a situation >> And you have to be sure in a situation >> And you have to be sure in a situation like this. So, she asked Esther to send like this. So, she asked Esther to send like this. So, she asked Esther to send her some photos of Marina from the late her some photos of Marina from the late her some photos of Marina from the late '80s just to compare to the photos of '80s just to compare to the photos of '80s just to compare to the photos of the victim at the crime scene. And we the victim at the crime scene. And we the victim at the crime scene. And we actually have the photos that Esther actually have the photos that Esther actually have the photos that Esther sent.

sent. sent. And these pictures do give Lori enough And these pictures do give Lori enough And these pictures do give Lori enough of a gut feeling to move full steam of a gut feeling to move full steam of a gut feeling to move full steam ahead, which will mean doing DNA testing ahead, which will mean doing DNA testing ahead, which will mean doing DNA testing to compare and be 100% sure. But the to compare and be 100% sure. But the to compare and be 100% sure. But the truth of the matter is truth of the matter is truth of the matter is even if Marina turns out not to be her even if Marina turns out not to be her even if Marina turns out not to be her Jane Doe, Lori by that point was so Jane Doe, Lori by that point was so Jane Doe, Lori by that point was so invested. And she, just as much as invested. And she, just as much as invested. And she, just as much as anything, wanted to figure out what anything, wanted to figure out what anything, wanted to figure out what happened to this Marina woman and to her happened to this Marina woman and to her happened to this Marina woman and to her two babies who, by all accounts, went two babies who, by all accounts, went two babies who, by all accounts, went missing around the same time as their missing around the same time as their missing around the same time as their mother. mother. mother. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> And if she is found dead in the desert, >> And if she is found dead in the desert, >> And if she is found dead in the desert, if it turns out to be her, Lord only if it turns out to be her, Lord only if it turns out to be her, Lord only knows what that means for her baby knows what that means for her baby knows what that means for her baby girls. Now, luckily, Marina's oldest girls. Now, luckily, Marina's oldest girls. Now, luckily, Marina's oldest daughter, the one that stayed back in daughter, the one that stayed back in daughter, the one that stayed back in Puerto Rico, Maria, she is still safe Puerto Rico, Maria, she is still safe Puerto Rico, Maria, she is still safe and sound and accounted for. She is and sound and accounted for. She is and sound and accounted for. She is almost 40 when Lori gets in touch with almost 40 when Lori gets in touch with almost 40 when Lori gets in touch with her and asks her for a DNA sample, which her and asks her for a DNA sample, which her and asks her for a DNA sample, which she tells her will help in both the idea she tells her will help in both the idea she tells her will help in both the idea of her mother and the search for her of her mother and the search for her of her mother and the search for her missing sisters. But do they have the missing sisters. But do they have the missing sisters. But do they have the same dads, though? same dads, though? same dads, though? >> Well, that's still a big question mark, >> Well, that's still a big question mark, >> Well, that's still a big question mark, but if not, it's not really going to but if not, it's not really going to but if not, it's not really going to interfere with finding them via DNA interfere with finding them via DNA interfere with finding them via DNA since they all we know have the same since they all we know have the same since they all we know have the same mother, right? So, in December 2022, mother, right? So, in December 2022, mother, right? So, in December 2022, that is when the first domino falls. The that is when the first domino falls. The that is when the first domino falls. The Arizona State Crime Lab calls Lori to Arizona State Crime Lab calls Lori to Arizona State Crime Lab calls Lori to share that they have confirmed that Jane share that they have confirmed that Jane share that they have confirmed that Jane Doe is Marina Ramos. By this point, Lori Doe is Marina Ramos. By this point, Lori Doe is Marina Ramos. By this point, Lori has already been working with all of the has already been working with all of the has already been working with all of the other available DNA data bases trying to other available DNA data bases trying to other available DNA data bases trying to locate her two daughters. But this locate her two daughters. But this locate her two daughters. But this confirmation gives Lori the full

confirmation gives Lori the full confirmation gives Lori the full authority to own this case. authority to own this case. authority to own this case. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I mean, this is hers, her jurisdiction. >> I mean, this is hers, her jurisdiction. >> I mean, this is hers, her jurisdiction. So, she launches a brand new homicide So, she launches a brand new homicide So, she launches a brand new homicide investigation in early 2023, coming at investigation in early 2023, coming at investigation in early 2023, coming at it totally fresh now that she can put a it totally fresh now that she can put a it totally fresh now that she can put a name to her victim. I mean, she rereads name to her victim. I mean, she rereads name to her victim. I mean, she rereads the whole case file with this new lens. the whole case file with this new lens. the whole case file with this new lens. And she also sends off several items of And she also sends off several items of And she also sends off several items of evidence for new testing, things like evidence for new testing, things like evidence for new testing, things like the Coke bottle to see if they can get the Coke bottle to see if they can get the Coke bottle to see if they can get higher quality fingerprints. higher quality fingerprints. higher quality fingerprints. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And that unknown biological material >> And that unknown biological material >> And that unknown biological material that was found during Marina's autopsy, that was found during Marina's autopsy, that was found during Marina's autopsy, which reveals now a mixed DNA profile, which reveals now a mixed DNA profile, which reveals now a mixed DNA profile, half of which is male and good enough half of which is male and good enough half of which is male and good enough for CODIS. for CODIS. for CODIS. But of course, there are no hits in But of course, there are no hits in But of course, there are no hits in CODIS. No, that would be too easy. No CODIS. No, that would be too easy. No CODIS. No, that would be too easy. No matches for now. matches for now. matches for now. So, Lori then checks with Social So, Lori then checks with Social So, Lori then checks with Social Security officers to make sure that the Security officers to make sure that the Security officers to make sure that the daughters' Social Security numbers have daughters' Social Security numbers have daughters' Social Security numbers have never been used. And when she gets never been used. And when she gets never been used. And when she gets confirmation that they haven't, she gets confirmation that they haven't, she gets confirmation that they haven't, she gets official missing persons reports with official missing persons reports with official missing persons reports with age progression images filed for age progression images filed for age progression images filed for Elizabeth and Jasmine via NCMEC. And Elizabeth and Jasmine via NCMEC. And Elizabeth and Jasmine via NCMEC. And going off Esther's description, the going off Esther's description, the going off Esther's description, the Mohave County Sheriff's Office blasts Mohave County Sheriff's Office blasts Mohave County Sheriff's Office blasts out the artist's rendering of the out the artist's rendering of the out the artist's rendering of the Fernando guy to local media and on Fernando guy to local media and on Fernando guy to local media and on social media. And that spreads outside social media. And that spreads outside social media. And that spreads outside of the Kingman, Mohave area.

of the Kingman, Mohave area. of the Kingman, Mohave area. Within weeks, Within weeks, Within weeks, a tip comes into dispatch over in a tip comes into dispatch over in a tip comes into dispatch over in Phoenix, Arizona. And the tipster says Phoenix, Arizona. And the tipster says Phoenix, Arizona. And the tipster says that they not only know who killed that they not only know who killed that they not only know who killed Marina, but they also know where Marina, but they also know where Marina, but they also know where Marina's daughters were taken after her Marina's daughters were taken after her Marina's daughters were taken after her murder. >> Hi Crime Junkies. Someone dropped us a >> Hi Crime Junkies. Someone dropped us a tip that there are 250 reasons to choose tip that there are 250 reasons to choose tip that there are 250 reasons to choose T-Mobile. And I got to say, the evidence T-Mobile. And I got to say, the evidence T-Mobile. And I got to say, the evidence checks out. Here's an undeniable reason. checks out. Here's an undeniable reason. checks out. Here's an undeniable reason. They have the fastest 5G home internet They have the fastest 5G home internet They have the fastest 5G home internet according to Ookla Speedtest. Love it in according to Ookla Speedtest. Love it in according to Ookla Speedtest. Love it in 15 days or your money back. Yep, that 15 days or your money back. Yep, that 15 days or your money back. Yep, that one's airtight. Another noteworthy one's airtight. Another noteworthy one's airtight. Another noteworthy reason, it's fast and easy to set up, reason, it's fast and easy to set up, reason, it's fast and easy to set up, too. Plug it in and you're online in too. Plug it in and you're online in too. Plug it in and you're online in virtually no time with no appointment, virtually no time with no appointment, virtually no time with no appointment, no technician needed. Those are just a no technician needed. Those are just a no technician needed. Those are just a few reasons and I'm already convinced few reasons and I'm already convinced few reasons and I'm already convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. Case closed. beyond a reasonable doubt. Case closed. beyond a reasonable doubt. Case closed. Find your reason to switch at Find your reason to switch at Find your reason to switch at t-mobile.com/homeinternet t-mobile.com/homeinternet t-mobile.com/homeinternet where you can check availability and try where you can check availability and try where you can check availability and try it for yourself. And they're so sure it for yourself. And they're so sure it for yourself. And they're so sure you'll love it, you can get your money you'll love it, you can get your money you'll love it, you can get your money back if you don't. Fastest according to back if you don't. Fastest according to back if you don't. Fastest according to Ookla Speedtest intelligence data second Ookla Speedtest intelligence data second Ookla Speedtest intelligence data second half of 2025. All rights reserved.

half of 2025. All rights reserved. half of 2025. All rights reserved. Redeem money back guarantee within 30 Redeem money back guarantee within 30 Redeem money back guarantee within 30 days of cancellation. >> The anonymous tipster says that a man >> The anonymous tipster says that a man named Fernando Coronel killed Marina and named Fernando Coronel killed Marina and named Fernando Coronel killed Marina and then her daughters were taken to LA and then her daughters were taken to LA and then her daughters were taken to LA and left in a park. Now, the fact that in left in a park. Now, the fact that in left in a park. Now, the fact that in this tip, this guy's name is Fernando this tip, this guy's name is Fernando this tip, this guy's name is Fernando makes Lori feel like there has to be makes Lori feel like there has to be makes Lori feel like there has to be something to this. something to this. something to this. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Except she quickly learns that there >> Except she quickly learns that there >> Except she quickly learns that there probably is no Fernando Coronel. At probably is no Fernando Coronel. At probably is no Fernando Coronel. At least not one that she can find anywhere least not one that she can find anywhere least not one that she can find anywhere who would be the right age. Like it's a who would be the right age. Like it's a who would be the right age. Like it's a fake name. So, Lori follows up with fake name. So, Lori follows up with fake name. So, Lori follows up with cousin Esther seeing if she recognizes cousin Esther seeing if she recognizes cousin Esther seeing if she recognizes the last name or remembers anything the last name or remembers anything the last name or remembers anything more. more. more. And listen, she never knew Fernando's And listen, she never knew Fernando's And listen, she never knew Fernando's last name, but last name, but last name, but like I said, it very well could have like I said, it very well could have like I said, it very well could have been a fake name because she tells her been a fake name because she tells her been a fake name because she tells her that one time when they were like, you that one time when they were like, you that one time when they were like, you know, together with him, she did hear know, together with him, she did hear know, together with him, she did hear somebody call Fernando David. Now, the somebody call Fernando David. Now, the somebody call Fernando David. Now, the only other thing she knew is that this only other thing she knew is that this only other thing she knew is that this Fernando David has ties to both Fernando David has ties to both Fernando David has ties to both Bakersfield Bakersfield Bakersfield and Phoenix.

and Phoenix. and Phoenix. >> I mean, there's the Arizona tie she's >> I mean, there's the Arizona tie she's >> I mean, there's the Arizona tie she's been searching for. been searching for. been searching for. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. But, even with that information, But, even with that information, But, even with that information, Lori has not been able to confirm Lori has not been able to confirm Lori has not been able to confirm Fernando, aka David, Fernando, aka David, Fernando, aka David, his identity or his location. And I am his identity or his location. And I am his identity or his location. And I am just going to start calling him Fernando just going to start calling him Fernando just going to start calling him Fernando David because this is about the time David because this is about the time David because this is about the time that another Fernando enters the that another Fernando enters the that another Fernando enters the picture. picture. picture. So, Marina's sister, Margarita, calls So, Marina's sister, Margarita, calls So, Marina's sister, Margarita, calls Lori and says that she has started Lori and says that she has started Lori and says that she has started hearing from family members that the hearing from family members that the hearing from family members that the father of the youngest baby, Jasmine, is father of the youngest baby, Jasmine, is father of the youngest baby, Jasmine, is a man named Fernando. But, not Fernando a man named Fernando. But, not Fernando a man named Fernando. But, not Fernando David. David. David. This Fernando does not match that This Fernando does not match that This Fernando does not match that sketch, and he has a different last sketch, and he has a different last sketch, and he has a different last name, one that I agreed that we wouldn't name, one that I agreed that we wouldn't name, one that I agreed that we wouldn't use. So, instead, I'm going to call this use. So, instead, I'm going to call this use. So, instead, I'm going to call this Fernando Fernando Dad because Lori Fernando Fernando Dad because Lori Fernando Fernando Dad because Lori tracks him down and he says that, yes, tracks him down and he says that, yes, tracks him down and he says that, yes, he and Marina were together for some he and Marina were together for some he and Marina were together for some time. In fact, he thinks that he was time. In fact, he thinks that he was time. In fact, he thinks that he was probably the father of both of her probably the father of both of her probably the father of both of her younger two children. And they were all younger two children. And they were all younger two children. And they were all living together in the summer of 1989.

living together in the summer of 1989. living together in the summer of 1989. He says, "Everything was great until He says, "Everything was great until He says, "Everything was great until Marina and her daughters vanished." Marina and her daughters vanished." Marina and her daughters vanished." >> And he didn't report them missing, >> And he didn't report them missing, >> And he didn't report them missing, either? either? either? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Why? >> Why? >> Why? >> I wish I knew. And his story is strange, >> I wish I knew. And his story is strange, >> I wish I knew. And his story is strange, for sure, but he said that sometime for sure, but he said that sometime for sure, but he said that sometime around August or September, he had to go around August or September, he had to go around August or September, he had to go to Mexico for a death in the family. And to Mexico for a death in the family. And to Mexico for a death in the family. And then, when he got back, Marina was then, when he got back, Marina was then, when he got back, Marina was packing up to leave because she said packing up to leave because she said packing up to leave because she said that there had been a disaster in Puerto that there had been a disaster in Puerto that there had been a disaster in Puerto Rico, an earthquake, he thinks, and she Rico, an earthquake, he thinks, and she Rico, an earthquake, he thinks, and she and the girls had to go. He says that and the girls had to go. He says that and the girls had to go. He says that two men in a red car came to pick them two men in a red car came to pick them two men in a red car came to pick them up, and then he just never sees them up, and then he just never sees them up, and then he just never sees them again. again. again. Do we believe him? Maybe. I mean, he Do we believe him? Maybe. I mean, he Do we believe him? Maybe. I mean, he describes one of the men as being 5'10 describes one of the men as being 5'10 describes one of the men as being 5'10 with short hair and looking like he just with short hair and looking like he just with short hair and looking like he just got out of the joint, he says. got out of the joint, he says. got out of the joint, he says. >> Doesn't sound like Fernando David in his >> Doesn't sound like Fernando David in his >> Doesn't sound like Fernando David in his suit, though. suit, though. suit, though. >> No, no. Because he was like fancy. Lori >> No, no. Because he was like fancy. Lori >> No, no. Because he was like fancy. Lori even shows him the composite sketch of even shows him the composite sketch of even shows him the composite sketch of Fernando David, and he's like, "Nope, Fernando David, and he's like, "Nope, Fernando David, and he's like, "Nope, that's not the guy that Marina left with that's not the guy that Marina left with that's not the guy that Marina left with in the red car." But he also says that in the red car." But he also says that in the red car." But he also says that he didn't get a good look at the other he didn't get a good look at the other he didn't get a good look at the other guy because the other guy stayed in the guy because the other guy stayed in the guy because the other guy stayed in the car.

car. car. But here is a weird twist that we But here is a weird twist that we But here is a weird twist that we uncovered in our reporting. uncovered in our reporting. uncovered in our reporting. While he told Lori that he didn't know While he told Lori that he didn't know While he told Lori that he didn't know who picked up Marina, who picked up Marina, who picked up Marina, Fernando dad told Marina's family Fernando dad told Marina's family Fernando dad told Marina's family something completely different. He tells something completely different. He tells something completely different. He tells them that it was her cousin William them that it was her cousin William them that it was her cousin William Cononus who picked them up. And William, Cononus who picked them up. And William, Cononus who picked them up. And William, by the way, is in prison for murder. by the way, is in prison for murder. by the way, is in prison for murder. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> Now, before you get too excited, Lori >> Now, before you get too excited, Lori >> Now, before you get too excited, Lori looked into William, and yes, he is in looked into William, and yes, he is in looked into William, and yes, he is in prison for the murder of his prison for the murder of his prison for the murder of his mother-in-law, and yes, he did leave his mother-in-law, and yes, he did leave his mother-in-law, and yes, he did leave his mother-in-law on a dirt road. mother-in-law on a dirt road. mother-in-law on a dirt road. >> Okay, I'm like, check and check. >> Okay, I'm like, check and check. >> Okay, I'm like, check and check. >> But he was in jail in 1989. So it >> But he was in jail in 1989. So it >> But he was in jail in 1989. So it probably wasn't him who picked her up, probably wasn't him who picked her up, probably wasn't him who picked her up, Marina I mean, and it certainly wasn't Marina I mean, and it certainly wasn't Marina I mean, and it certainly wasn't William who left her body in the desert. William who left her body in the desert. William who left her body in the desert. >> But okay. >> But okay. >> But okay. Sure. Sure. Sure. Doesn't answer why Fernando dad is Doesn't answer why Fernando dad is Doesn't answer why Fernando dad is telling telling telling two different stories two different stories two different stories >> no idea why. I have no idea why he would >> no idea why. I have no idea why he would >> no idea why. I have no idea why he would be be be covering for William or or making it up covering for William or or making it up covering for William or or making it up about William.

about William. about William. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But Fernando dad's stories might not all >> But Fernando dad's stories might not all >> But Fernando dad's stories might not all be lies or misdirection or whatever be lies or misdirection or whatever be lies or misdirection or whatever because investigators looked up natural because investigators looked up natural because investigators looked up natural disasters that happened in August or disasters that happened in August or disasters that happened in August or September of 1989 in Puerto Rico. September of 1989 in Puerto Rico. September of 1989 in Puerto Rico. And lo and behold, on September 18th of And lo and behold, on September 18th of And lo and behold, on September 18th of that year, Hurricane Hugo made landing. that year, Hurricane Hugo made landing. that year, Hurricane Hugo made landing. So, if this story is true, So, if this story is true, So, if this story is true, that would put Marina still in the that would put Marina still in the that would put Marina still in the Bakersfield area in September, which now Bakersfield area in September, which now Bakersfield area in September, which now that would be the last sighting of her that would be the last sighting of her that would be the last sighting of her instead of when Esther saw her leave in instead of when Esther saw her leave in instead of when Esther saw her leave in August. August. August. >> And did Fernando Dad have any sort of >> And did Fernando Dad have any sort of >> And did Fernando Dad have any sort of like like like violent or criminal history? violent or criminal history? violent or criminal history? >> So, I mean, he had a assault with a >> So, I mean, he had a assault with a >> So, I mean, he had a assault with a deadly weapon charge from 1989. deadly weapon charge from 1989. deadly weapon charge from 1989. He told Lori, our detective, that it He told Lori, our detective, that it He told Lori, our detective, that it stemmed from a night out when he hit a stemmed from a night out when he hit a stemmed from a night out when he hit a friend for making a disparaging comment friend for making a disparaging comment friend for making a disparaging comment about his mom, but Lori says that the about his mom, but Lori says that the about his mom, but Lori says that the charging county had purged the court charging county had purged the court charging county had purged the court records. So, by the time she's learning records. So, by the time she's learning records. So, by the time she's learning about all of this, she couldn't go back about all of this, she couldn't go back about all of this, she couldn't go back and confirm his story. Now, before and confirm his story. Now, before and confirm his story. Now, before leaving, after after Lori talks to leaving, after after Lori talks to leaving, after after Lori talks to Fernando Dad, she gets his DNA and his Fernando Dad, she gets his DNA and his Fernando Dad, she gets his DNA and his prints, prints, prints, and fast forward, it does not match and fast forward, it does not match and fast forward, it does not match their evidence.

their evidence. their evidence. >> And they still can't use like databases >> And they still can't use like databases >> And they still can't use like databases because of the print quality, right? because of the print quality, right? because of the print quality, right? >> Yeah, for DNA we've got like CODIS and >> Yeah, for DNA we've got like CODIS and >> Yeah, for DNA we've got like CODIS and stuff, but for the prints we can't use stuff, but for the prints we can't use stuff, but for the prints we can't use AFIS or anything. AFIS or anything. AFIS or anything. >> just like partial and like >> just like partial and like >> just like partial and like >> Yeah, and Lori had even tried getting >> Yeah, and Lori had even tried getting >> Yeah, and Lori had even tried getting better prints lifted. Like she in June better prints lifted. Like she in June better prints lifted. Like she in June of 2025, she called an FBI agent in of 2025, she called an FBI agent in of 2025, she called an FBI agent in Phoenix trying to enhance the prints. Phoenix trying to enhance the prints. Phoenix trying to enhance the prints. Because like she's fairly confident that Because like she's fairly confident that Because like she's fairly confident that the Coke bottle is related, probably the Coke bottle is related, probably the Coke bottle is related, probably just because I mean, I I I said just because I mean, I I I said just because I mean, I I I said >> There's nothing else out there. Exactly. >> There's nothing else out there. Exactly. >> There's nothing else out there. Exactly. >> So, anyways, this agent ends up like >> So, anyways, this agent ends up like >> So, anyways, this agent ends up like tapping somebody in the Secret Service tapping somebody in the Secret Service tapping somebody in the Secret Service like to with this task because they're like to with this task because they're like to with this task because they're better equipped for fingerprint better equipped for fingerprint better equipped for fingerprint enhancing. They get her some pretty enhancing. They get her some pretty enhancing. They get her some pretty decent prints to work with, like good decent prints to work with, like good decent prints to work with, like good enough that she is able to put them into enough that she is able to put them into enough that she is able to put them into AFIS. AFIS. AFIS. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah, I mean, it's not like luck that >> Yeah, I mean, it's not like luck that >> Yeah, I mean, it's not like luck that she's making breakthroughs in this case she's making breakthroughs in this case she's making breakthroughs in this case that was dormant for 30 years. She is that was dormant for 30 years. She is that was dormant for 30 years. She is putting in the work, pulling out every putting in the work, pulling out every putting in the work, pulling out every stop, using every resource that she is stop, using every resource that she is stop, using every resource that she is like has available to her. I I she is so like has available to her. I I she is so like has available to her. I I she is so persistent in fact that Lori jokes that persistent in fact that Lori jokes that persistent in fact that Lori jokes that the analysts at the crime lab probably the analysts at the crime lab probably the analysts at the crime lab probably roll their eyes when she calls. But, roll their eyes when she calls. But, roll their eyes when she calls. But, like, it keeps paying off, so she keeps like, it keeps paying off, so she keeps like, it keeps paying off, so she keeps doing it. But, even when the prints go doing it. But, even when the prints go doing it. But, even when the prints go to AFIS, there is still no match in the to AFIS, there is still no match in the to AFIS, there is still no match in the system. Now, this whole time behind the system. Now, this whole time behind the system. Now, this whole time behind the scenes, she has been working with every scenes, she has been working with every scenes, she has been working with every DNA database as well that she can think DNA database as well that she can think DNA database as well that she can think of to get Marina's oldest daughter's of to get Marina's oldest daughter's of to get Marina's oldest daughter's swabs entered and tested.

swabs entered and tested. swabs entered and tested. And in August 2025, And in August 2025, And in August 2025, >> she gets her first hit for one of the >> she gets her first hit for one of the >> she gets her first hit for one of the missing daughters. missing daughters. missing daughters. >> The match is to a woman named Tina >> The match is to a woman named Tina >> The match is to a woman named Tina Mangum, who Mangum, who Mangum, who is alive, who looks to be a half sister. is alive, who looks to be a half sister. is alive, who looks to be a half sister. Lori looks her up and sees that she is Lori looks her up and sees that she is Lori looks her up and sees that she is the correct age range, and she can the correct age range, and she can the correct age range, and she can barely contain her excitement. Like, barely contain her excitement. Like, barely contain her excitement. Like, there are six phone numbers listed for there are six phone numbers listed for there are six phone numbers listed for Tina, and of course, she goes one by Tina, and of course, she goes one by Tina, and of course, she goes one by one. One is bad, two is bad, three is one. One is bad, two is bad, three is one. One is bad, two is bad, three is She goes through all five, and on the She goes through all five, and on the She goes through all five, and on the sixth try, a woman picks up. sixth try, a woman picks up. sixth try, a woman picks up. And this woman confirms that she and her And this woman confirms that she and her And this woman confirms that she and her older sister, Melissa, were adopted at a older sister, Melissa, were adopted at a older sister, Melissa, were adopted at a really young age. So young that they really young age. So young that they really young age. So young that they have no memory of their birth parents. have no memory of their birth parents. have no memory of their birth parents. And the story she tells about how they And the story she tells about how they And the story she tells about how they came to be adopted is wild. came to be adopted is wild. came to be adopted is wild. And it gives validity to that tip that And it gives validity to that tip that And it gives validity to that tip that they had gotten out of Phoenix. The one they had gotten out of Phoenix. The one they had gotten out of Phoenix. The one that said Fernando Coronel killed Marina that said Fernando Coronel killed Marina that said Fernando Coronel killed Marina and left her two girls in an LA park.

and left her two girls in an LA park. and left her two girls in an LA park. Because what Lori ends up learning is Because what Lori ends up learning is Because what Lori ends up learning is that Tina and Melissa were found on that Tina and Melissa were found on that Tina and Melissa were found on December 14th, 1989 December 14th, 1989 December 14th, 1989 by an employee at Colonia Park in by an employee at Colonia Park in by an employee at Colonia Park in Oxnard, California. Now, this is Oxnard, California. Now, this is Oxnard, California. Now, this is something like six or seven hours away something like six or seven hours away something like six or seven hours away from the area where Marina's body was from the area where Marina's body was from the area where Marina's body was found. And it's just two days after she found. And it's just two days after she found. And it's just two days after she was discovered. was discovered. was discovered. But, clearly, nobody was making the But, clearly, nobody was making the But, clearly, nobody was making the connection. connection. connection. So, the story goes like this. At 2:15 So, the story goes like this. At 2:15 So, the story goes like this. At 2:15 p.m., that park employee, his name is p.m., that park employee, his name is p.m., that park employee, his name is Larry, he hears kids crying in the Larry, he hears kids crying in the Larry, he hears kids crying in the women's restroom. And he sees a woman women's restroom. And he sees a woman women's restroom. And he sees a woman walking by, and he asks her to go in and walking by, and he asks her to go in and walking by, and he asks her to go in and have a look. And the woman reports that have a look. And the woman reports that have a look. And the woman reports that there are two children on the bathroom there are two children on the bathroom there are two children on the bathroom floor laying in puddles of water and floor laying in puddles of water and floor laying in puddles of water and urine. And there are no adults with urine. And there are no adults with urine. And there are no adults with them. them. them. So, Larry takes custody of the girls, So, Larry takes custody of the girls, So, Larry takes custody of the girls, calls police. He also reaches out to calls police. He also reaches out to calls police. He also reaches out to other park employees, can't find any other park employees, can't find any other park employees, can't find any trace of the parents. And word gets trace of the parents. And word gets trace of the parents. And word gets through the neighborhood grapevine. And through the neighborhood grapevine. And through the neighborhood grapevine. And apparently, police soon get a call from apparently, police soon get a call from apparently, police soon get a call from a woman named Mary Lou, who her house a woman named Mary Lou, who her house a woman named Mary Lou, who her house like overlooks the park. Mary Lou like overlooks the park. Mary Lou like overlooks the park. Mary Lou reports that just 15 minutes before the reports that just 15 minutes before the reports that just 15 minutes before the kids were found, she saw this small kids were found, she saw this small kids were found, she saw this small black pickup with two men and a woman black pickup with two men and a woman black pickup with two men and a woman inside. Now, she described all of them inside. Now, she described all of them inside. Now, she described all of them as Latin. She says they park, and one of as Latin. She says they park, and one of as Latin. She says they park, and one of the men and the woman get out. The the men and the woman get out. The the men and the woman get out. The woman's carrying a small baby in a woman's carrying a small baby in a woman's carrying a small baby in a yellow blanket. The man is carrying the yellow blanket. The man is carrying the yellow blanket. The man is carrying the bigger child who has a dress on.

bigger child who has a dress on. bigger child who has a dress on. And they walk toward the park out of her And they walk toward the park out of her And they walk toward the park out of her sight. sight. sight. Mary Lou says that she only noticed them Mary Lou says that she only noticed them Mary Lou says that she only noticed them because the woman was wearing this like because the woman was wearing this like because the woman was wearing this like knee-length red skirt with bright white knee-length red skirt with bright white knee-length red skirt with bright white boots, which like caught her eye. boots, which like caught her eye. boots, which like caught her eye. And Mary Lou thinks that she would And Mary Lou thinks that she would And Mary Lou thinks that she would probably recognize the woman if she saw probably recognize the woman if she saw probably recognize the woman if she saw her again. And I had to like, I don't her again. And I had to like, I don't her again. And I had to like, I don't know why, but when I was like know why, but when I was like know why, but when I was like researching this case, I had to stop researching this case, I had to stop researching this case, I had to stop myself 25 times from thinking like, "Oh, myself 25 times from thinking like, "Oh, myself 25 times from thinking like, "Oh, is there any world where this was is there any world where this was is there any world where this was Marina?" Marina?" Marina?" But I had to keep reminding myself, "No, But I had to keep reminding myself, "No, But I had to keep reminding myself, "No, this is two days this is two days this is two days >> after after she's been found dead. >> after after she's been found dead. >> after after she's been found dead. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Correct. So, the girls get taken to the police So, the girls get taken to the police So, the girls get taken to the police station, and they are unharmed and station, and they are unharmed and station, and they are unharmed and healthy, but they're too little to know healthy, but they're too little to know healthy, but they're too little to know their own names. their own names. their own names. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> The police try, they make up posters, of >> The police try, they make up posters, of >> The police try, they make up posters, of course, to try and find their parents. course, to try and find their parents. course, to try and find their parents. But when they can't, the girls But when they can't, the girls But when they can't, the girls eventually go through the system, and eventually go through the system, and eventually go through the system, and they end up getting adopted. they end up getting adopted. they end up getting adopted. And the girls actually didn't even know And the girls actually didn't even know And the girls actually didn't even know that they were adopted until they were that they were adopted until they were that they were adopted until they were almost done with high school. Like almost done with high school. Like almost done with high school. Like that's when they had found some that's when they had found some that's when they had found some newspaper clippings at their parents newspaper clippings at their parents newspaper clippings at their parents with like old stories about them being with like old stories about them being with like old stories about them being found at a park.

found at a park. found at a park. >> We have this happened before. >> We have this happened before. >> We have this happened before. >> We've done an episode like this before. >> We've done an episode like this before. >> We've done an episode like this before. I don't know why like people are like if I don't know why like people are like if I don't know why like people are like if you're not going to tell them they're you're not going to tell them they're you're not going to tell them they're adopted, at least like don't keep the adopted, at least like don't keep the adopted, at least like don't keep the newspaper clippings. newspaper clippings. newspaper clippings. Anyways, when Lori tells Tina what she's Anyways, when Lori tells Tina what she's Anyways, when Lori tells Tina what she's working on, right? Like this is why I working on, right? Like this is why I working on, right? Like this is why I called you. And she's telling Tina that called you. And she's telling Tina that called you. And she's telling Tina that I actually believe you're Jasmine. I actually believe you're Jasmine. I actually believe you're Jasmine. Tina says she has to pull over her car. Tina says she has to pull over her car. Tina says she has to pull over her car. She's like driving because and she's She's like driving because and she's She's like driving because and she's just like in such shock. She can't just like in such shock. She can't just like in such shock. She can't handle it. I mean, part of her handle it. I mean, part of her handle it. I mean, part of her submitting her DNA to a public database submitting her DNA to a public database submitting her DNA to a public database was to get answers about her birth was to get answers about her birth was to get answers about her birth family, but never in a million years did family, but never in a million years did family, but never in a million years did she expect a detective to call her and she expect a detective to call her and she expect a detective to call her and tell her that the mother she never got tell her that the mother she never got tell her that the mother she never got to meet had been murdered. Like I can't to meet had been murdered. Like I can't to meet had been murdered. Like I can't imagine the complex feelings that she imagine the complex feelings that she imagine the complex feelings that she had to contend with. had to contend with. had to contend with. >> Well, and like not just murdered, but >> Well, and like not just murdered, but >> Well, and like not just murdered, but murdered and found around the same time murdered and found around the same time murdered and found around the same time you like you like you like >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Like this all happened together. You >> Like this all happened together. You >> Like this all happened together. You were like essentially the only reason were like essentially the only reason were like essentially the only reason like the only reason you were adopted like the only reason you were adopted like the only reason you were adopted was because your mom was murdered.

was because your mom was murdered. was because your mom was murdered. >> Yes. And like these are all the >> Yes. And like these are all the >> Yes. And like these are all the complicated feelings that like her complicated feelings that like her complicated feelings that like her sister Melissa is about to be hit with sister Melissa is about to be hit with sister Melissa is about to be hit with when Lori reaches out to her. And by the when Lori reaches out to her. And by the when Lori reaches out to her. And by the way, just from here on out, I'm going to way, just from here on out, I'm going to way, just from here on out, I'm going to call the sisters by their adoptive call the sisters by their adoptive call the sisters by their adoptive names, which is what they go by, Melissa names, which is what they go by, Melissa names, which is what they go by, Melissa and Tina. and Tina. and Tina. So, unlike her sister Tina, Melissa, who So, unlike her sister Tina, Melissa, who So, unlike her sister Tina, Melissa, who is the older of the two, is hesitant to is the older of the two, is hesitant to is the older of the two, is hesitant to learn more about their past. Like she learn more about their past. Like she learn more about their past. Like she knew Tina had put her DNA into online knew Tina had put her DNA into online knew Tina had put her DNA into online databases hoping to find their databases hoping to find their databases hoping to find their biological parents, biological parents, biological parents, but Melissa, who we also interviewed for but Melissa, who we also interviewed for but Melissa, who we also interviewed for this episode, says that part of her is this episode, says that part of her is this episode, says that part of her is still scared of what she will learn. still scared of what she will learn. still scared of what she will learn. Plus, she and Tina, she said, had this Plus, she and Tina, she said, had this Plus, she and Tina, she said, had this wonderful upbringing with their adoptive wonderful upbringing with their adoptive wonderful upbringing with their adoptive family. I mean, she describes it as family. I mean, she describes it as family. I mean, she describes it as idyllic. idyllic. idyllic. >> Yeah, and like speaking from experience, >> Yeah, and like speaking from experience, >> Yeah, and like speaking from experience, like that can open like a whole like that can open like a whole like that can open like a whole just treasure trove of stuff. So, she's just treasure trove of stuff. So, she's just treasure trove of stuff. So, she's probably like just don't burst my probably like just don't burst my probably like just don't burst my bubble. Like we had a good life. bubble. Like we had a good life. bubble. Like we had a good life. >> Let it be that. >> Let it be that. >> Let it be that. >> Right. Ever since she was a teenager, >> Right. Ever since she was a teenager, >> Right. Ever since she was a teenager, when they found out they were adopted, when they found out they were adopted, when they found out they were adopted, she just figured her parents abandoned she just figured her parents abandoned she just figured her parents abandoned them.

them. them. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So, saying that this information is a >> So, saying that this information is a >> So, saying that this information is a lot to process is the understatement of lot to process is the understatement of lot to process is the understatement of the century. When you talk about like the century. When you talk about like the century. When you talk about like the complicated feelings, one of the the complicated feelings, one of the the complicated feelings, one of the things I keep thinking about is there's things I keep thinking about is there's things I keep thinking about is there's probably like I imagine there's probably probably like I imagine there's probably probably like I imagine there's probably been resentment for all these years, been resentment for all these years, been resentment for all these years, right? Like, "Oh, we were just abandoned right? Like, "Oh, we were just abandoned right? Like, "Oh, we were just abandoned in this park." And to know, to your in this park." And to know, to your in this park." And to know, to your point, this is why this is like point, this is why this is like point, this is why this is like I can't I cannot imagine. I can't I cannot imagine. I can't I cannot imagine. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You have to like reorganize all of your >> You have to like reorganize all of your >> You have to like reorganize all of your thoughts around what you had kind of thoughts around what you had kind of thoughts around what you had kind of believed your whole life about believed your whole life about believed your whole life about everything. everything. everything. >> But here's the thing, whether she wants >> But here's the thing, whether she wants >> But here's the thing, whether she wants answers or not, some are going to come. answers or not, some are going to come. answers or not, some are going to come. Because using DNA, Lori soon confirms Because using DNA, Lori soon confirms Because using DNA, Lori soon confirms that Fernando dad is actually the that Fernando dad is actually the that Fernando dad is actually the biological father biological father biological father of just one of the girls. He is the of just one of the girls. He is the of just one of the girls. He is the biological father of Tina, but not biological father of Tina, but not biological father of Tina, but not Melissa. When she met with him, he Melissa. When she met with him, he Melissa. When she met with him, he thought he was the father of both of thought he was the father of both of thought he was the father of both of them. them. them. >> Right. So, who is Melissa's biological >> Right. So, who is Melissa's biological >> Right. So, who is Melissa's biological dad then? dad then? dad then? >> So, here is where the mystery takes one >> So, here is where the mystery takes one >> So, here is where the mystery takes one final twist, and where listeners might final twist, and where listeners might final twist, and where listeners might be able to help.

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anytime, completely uninterrupted. anytime, completely uninterrupted. youtube.com/premium. youtube.com/premium. youtube.com/premium. Sign up now for your free trial. Terms Sign up now for your free trial. Terms Sign up now for your free trial. Terms and conditions apply. >> So, obviously, Melissa's bio dad would >> So, obviously, Melissa's bio dad would be someone that Lori would want to talk be someone that Lori would want to talk be someone that Lori would want to talk to, right? to, right? to, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, when Lori puts Melissa's DNA into >> Well, when Lori puts Melissa's DNA into >> Well, when Lori puts Melissa's DNA into Ancestry, what do you know? Ding ding Ancestry, what do you know? Ding ding Ancestry, what do you know? Ding ding ding, like they get a hit. Now, it's not ding, like they get a hit. Now, it's not ding, like they get a hit. Now, it's not directly to a father, but it's a match directly to a father, but it's a match directly to a father, but it's a match to someone who doesn't come up on Tina's to someone who doesn't come up on Tina's to someone who doesn't come up on Tina's profile. profile. profile. >> Which means it has to be connected to >> Which means it has to be connected to >> Which means it has to be connected to the dad side. the dad side. the dad side. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Correct. The woman that pops up, her name is The woman that pops up, her name is The woman that pops up, her name is Victoria Garcia. So, Lori messages Victoria Garcia. So, Lori messages Victoria Garcia. So, Lori messages Victoria, thinking she's just like a Victoria, thinking she's just like a Victoria, thinking she's just like a conversation away from her next big conversation away from her next big conversation away from her next big lead. lead. lead. But then something shocking happens. Not But then something shocking happens. Not But then something shocking happens. Not only does Victoria Garcia not respond, only does Victoria Garcia not respond, only does Victoria Garcia not respond, she blocks Lori. she blocks Lori. she blocks Lori. So, Melissa also tries messaging this So, Melissa also tries messaging this So, Melissa also tries messaging this woman on Ancestry, because you know, woman on Ancestry, because you know, woman on Ancestry, because you know, they're thinking, "Okay, you know, a they're thinking, "Okay, you know, a they're thinking, "Okay, you know, a homicide detective sliding into your homicide detective sliding into your homicide detective sliding into your DMs." Like, that could spook could spook DMs." Like, that could spook could spook DMs." Like, that could spook could spook the average person.

the average person. the average person. >> But then Victoria blocks Melissa, too. >> But then Victoria blocks Melissa, too. >> But then Victoria blocks Melissa, too. Everybody agrees this is suspicious Everybody agrees this is suspicious Everybody agrees this is suspicious behavior. behavior. behavior. >> Well, yeah, because like what is this >> Well, yeah, because like what is this >> Well, yeah, because like what is this person hiding? You're on Ancestry, person hiding? You're on Ancestry, person hiding? You're on Ancestry, right? right? right? >> You're on like there's no other reason >> You're on like there's no other reason >> You're on like there's no other reason to do that if you don't want to find to do that if you don't want to find to do that if you don't want to find like biological relatives, and then you like biological relatives, and then you like biological relatives, and then you so block one that reaches out? so block one that reaches out? so block one that reaches out? >> Well, and here's the thing, too, is Lori >> Well, and here's the thing, too, is Lori >> Well, and here's the thing, too, is Lori thinks that it's very possible the woman thinks that it's very possible the woman thinks that it's very possible the woman might even be using a fake name on might even be using a fake name on might even be using a fake name on Ancestry, though she can't say for sure. Ancestry, though she can't say for sure. Ancestry, though she can't say for sure. So, she is currently trying every means So, she is currently trying every means So, she is currently trying every means she can think of to find this woman and she can think of to find this woman and she can think of to find this woman and get to the bottom of what is going on get to the bottom of what is going on get to the bottom of what is going on here. here. here. And when I say she's trying everything, And when I say she's trying everything, And when I say she's trying everything, that is including asking for help from that is including asking for help from that is including asking for help from Crime Junkie's. Crime Junkie's. Crime Junkie's. >> So, like that's this is what also she's >> So, like that's this is what also she's >> So, like that's this is what also she's trying. trying. trying. >> Right. So, along with trying to track >> Right. So, along with trying to track >> Right. So, along with trying to track down the real woman behind this Victoria down the real woman behind this Victoria down the real woman behind this Victoria Garcia name on Ancestry, Garcia name on Ancestry, Garcia name on Ancestry, she's also looking for Crime Junkie's she's also looking for Crime Junkie's she's also looking for Crime Junkie's help in IDing Fernando David, the man in help in IDing Fernando David, the man in help in IDing Fernando David, the man in the sketch, who was the one who picked the sketch, who was the one who picked the sketch, who was the one who picked them up the Marine and the girls in them up the Marine and the girls in them up the Marine and the girls in August from Esther's place, and who is August from Esther's place, and who is August from Esther's place, and who is also likely the same person that that also likely the same person that that also likely the same person that that Phoenix tip was about. But, Phoenix tip was about. But, Phoenix tip was about. But, >> aren't we saying that the Fernando David >> aren't we saying that the Fernando David >> aren't we saying that the Fernando David sighting now, at least, isn't actually sighting now, at least, isn't actually sighting now, at least, isn't actually the last sighting of Marina?

the last sighting of Marina? the last sighting of Marina? >> I mean, it's not as if we completely >> I mean, it's not as if we completely >> I mean, it's not as if we completely believe Fernando dad, but even if believe Fernando dad, but even if believe Fernando dad, but even if everything he's saying is completely everything he's saying is completely everything he's saying is completely true, true, true, Fernando David is still somebody who was Fernando David is still somebody who was Fernando David is still somebody who was clearly in Marina's life at the time. clearly in Marina's life at the time. clearly in Marina's life at the time. And if Fernando David is Fernando And if Fernando David is Fernando And if Fernando David is Fernando Coronel, who the Phoenix tip was about, Coronel, who the Phoenix tip was about, Coronel, who the Phoenix tip was about, that tip carries a lot of weight now that tip carries a lot of weight now that tip carries a lot of weight now that we know that her girls really were that we know that her girls really were that we know that her girls really were in a park near LA. Yes. in a park near LA. Yes. in a park near LA. Yes. >> So, >> So, >> So, in all of this, what does Lori think in all of this, what does Lori think in all of this, what does Lori think happened? Because we have Marina and her happened? Because we have Marina and her happened? Because we have Marina and her daughters maybe leaving Bakersfield in daughters maybe leaving Bakersfield in daughters maybe leaving Bakersfield in September, then months later, Marina is September, then months later, Marina is September, then months later, Marina is found in Arizona, then 2 days later, her found in Arizona, then 2 days later, her found in Arizona, then 2 days later, her daughters are left in a park in daughters are left in a park in daughters are left in a park in California, but not Bakersfield where California, but not Bakersfield where California, but not Bakersfield where they took off. Like, they're in a they took off. Like, they're in a they took off. Like, they're in a different city all together. different city all together. different city all together. >> Oxnard, which is like 2 hours away. So, >> Oxnard, which is like 2 hours away. So, >> Oxnard, which is like 2 hours away. So, I don't know. Listen, Lori has thought I don't know. Listen, Lori has thought I don't know. Listen, Lori has thought of like every scenario possible. of like every scenario possible. of like every scenario possible. She says she is open to many She says she is open to many She says she is open to many possibilities, possibilities, possibilities, one of which is maybe Marina left the one of which is maybe Marina left the one of which is maybe Marina left the girls with somebody while she hooked up girls with somebody while she hooked up girls with somebody while she hooked up with some shady characters. Meaning with some shady characters. Meaning with some shady characters. Meaning maybe maybe maybe whoever killed her and whoever abandoned whoever killed her and whoever abandoned whoever killed her and whoever abandoned the girls could be like completely the girls could be like completely the girls could be like completely different and maybe even unrelated different and maybe even unrelated different and maybe even unrelated parties.

parties. parties. >> I mean, I could see that. >> I mean, I could see that. >> I mean, I could see that. >> Here's what I'll say. Melissa told us >> Here's what I'll say. Melissa told us >> Here's what I'll say. Melissa told us that she thinks it's likely for the best that she thinks it's likely for the best that she thinks it's likely for the best that she and Tina were left in that that she and Tina were left in that that she and Tina were left in that women's restroom. women's restroom. women's restroom. She says that she chooses to believe She says that she chooses to believe She says that she chooses to believe that her mom knew she was in danger and that her mom knew she was in danger and that her mom knew she was in danger and put them in the care of somebody who put them in the care of somebody who put them in the care of somebody who would get them to safety rather than would get them to safety rather than would get them to safety rather than putting the girls in any harm's way, putting the girls in any harm's way, putting the girls in any harm's way, too. I can't help but wonder though, too. I can't help but wonder though, too. I can't help but wonder though, like like like if the people who abandoned the kids at if the people who abandoned the kids at if the people who abandoned the kids at the park had nothing to do with Marina's the park had nothing to do with Marina's the park had nothing to do with Marina's murder, murder, murder, why not take them to why not take them to why not take them to police or a fire station or something police or a fire station or something police or a fire station or something like that instead? like that instead? like that instead? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like even if you didn't want contact >> Like even if you didn't want contact >> Like even if you didn't want contact with police, like you know, there's with police, like you know, there's with police, like you know, there's different like communities who like different like communities who like different like communities who like don't want that, but there's there's don't want that, but there's there's don't want that, but there's there's other places you could drop a baby other places you could drop a baby other places you could drop a baby that's not a bathroom. that's not a bathroom. that's not a bathroom. >> Yeah, and I was even thinking like kind >> Yeah, and I was even thinking like kind >> Yeah, and I was even thinking like kind of along those lines, of along those lines, of along those lines, the timing of it feels weird. Like if the timing of it feels weird. Like if the timing of it feels weird. Like if they are completely unrelated, you only they are completely unrelated, you only they are completely unrelated, you only waited like two days after you didn't waited like two days after you didn't waited like two days after you didn't >> Maybe three if she'd been dead 24 hours. >> Maybe three if she'd been dead 24 hours. >> Maybe three if she'd been dead 24 hours. >> Yeah, since you had last heard from >> Yeah, since you had last heard from >> Yeah, since you had last heard from Marina before you're like, "Got to get Marina before you're like, "Got to get Marina before you're like, "Got to get these kids off my hands." But like these kids off my hands." But like these kids off my hands." But like >> You're assuming that like that that she >> You're assuming that like that that she >> You're assuming that like that that she dropped them off right before she went dropped them off right before she went dropped them off right before she went with them.

with them. with them. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> missing months here. >> missing months here. >> missing months here. >> That's that's very true. But then again, >> That's that's very true. But then again, >> That's that's very true. But then again, then then the timing becomes then then the timing becomes then then the timing becomes coincidence. coincidence. coincidence. >> Yeah, I mean, I think it's just as >> Yeah, I mean, I think it's just as >> Yeah, I mean, I think it's just as likely that the person or people who likely that the person or people who likely that the person or people who killed Marina are the same ones who left killed Marina are the same ones who left killed Marina are the same ones who left the girls at the park. the girls at the park. the girls at the park. We we know we have multiple shoe prints We we know we have multiple shoe prints We we know we have multiple shoe prints at the crime scene indicating a couple at the crime scene indicating a couple at the crime scene indicating a couple of people are involved. Then we know of people are involved. Then we know of people are involved. Then we know like a car drives back west, then we've like a car drives back west, then we've like a car drives back west, then we've got witnesses at the park who see, got witnesses at the park who see, got witnesses at the park who see, again, multiple people dropping off the again, multiple people dropping off the again, multiple people dropping off the girls. Like it feels similar. Especially girls. Like it feels similar. Especially girls. Like it feels similar. Especially because like again, I don't know why because like again, I don't know why because like again, I don't know why they're discounting the other prints they're discounting the other prints they're discounting the other prints that I showed you, but like the one that I showed you, but like the one that I showed you, but like the one print to me looks like a boot print and print to me looks like a boot print and print to me looks like a boot print and when we know when we know when we know >> The woman >> The woman >> The woman >> was wearing white boots. >> was wearing white boots. >> was wearing white boots. >> at the park. Again, I don't maybe that >> at the park. Again, I don't maybe that >> at the park. Again, I don't maybe that belonged to a police officer and that's belonged to a police officer and that's belonged to a police officer and that's why they're so willing to like write it why they're so willing to like write it why they're so willing to like write it off. It's just something that has been off. It's just something that has been off. It's just something that has been like nagging at me. The thing that like nagging at me. The thing that like nagging at me. The thing that doesn't line up with this being the same doesn't line up with this being the same doesn't line up with this being the same group of people though are the cars group of people though are the cars group of people though are the cars because detectives think that the tracks because detectives think that the tracks because detectives think that the tracks at the crime scene are from a mid-sized at the crime scene are from a mid-sized at the crime scene are from a mid-sized four-door sedan.

four-door sedan. four-door sedan. But we know that it is a small pickup But we know that it is a small pickup But we know that it is a small pickup that is seen at the park. that is seen at the park. that is seen at the park. >> Yes. But it's not like they would have >> Yes. But it's not like they would have >> Yes. But it's not like they would have had to have driven straight there. Like had to have driven straight there. Like had to have driven straight there. Like if it's 6 or 7 hours away like you said if it's 6 or 7 hours away like you said if it's 6 or 7 hours away like you said the girls are found 2 days after. That's the girls are found 2 days after. That's the girls are found 2 days after. That's still like still like still like time between. Like who knows what time between. Like who knows what time between. Like who knows what happened between then. I mean happened between then. I mean happened between then. I mean to your point, I'm still wondering where to your point, I'm still wondering where to your point, I'm still wondering where they were for the months before the they were for the months before the they were for the months before the murder. murder. murder. >> I think answering that could be the key >> I think answering that could be the key >> I think answering that could be the key to this case. to this case. to this case. Lori is actively working all angles of Lori is actively working all angles of Lori is actively working all angles of this case today from DNA testing and this case today from DNA testing and this case today from DNA testing and genetic genealogy to like genetic genealogy to like genetic genealogy to like boots-on-the-ground investigative work. boots-on-the-ground investigative work. boots-on-the-ground investigative work. Like even remember that used piece of Like even remember that used piece of Like even remember that used piece of toilet paper found at the crime scene? toilet paper found at the crime scene? toilet paper found at the crime scene? That got preserved and she resubmitted That got preserved and she resubmitted That got preserved and she resubmitted that for testing. that for testing. that for testing. Unfortunately, there wasn't any Unfortunately, there wasn't any Unfortunately, there wasn't any identifiable DNA still intact on it. identifiable DNA still intact on it. identifiable DNA still intact on it. So, this really is where we're going to So, this really is where we're going to So, this really is where we're going to need our Crime Junkies to like step up. need our Crime Junkies to like step up. need our Crime Junkies to like step up. Lori has homework for all of us. She is Lori has homework for all of us. She is Lori has homework for all of us. She is still trying to identify the man and still trying to identify the man and still trying to identify the man and woman seen in Colonia Park in Oxnard, woman seen in Colonia Park in Oxnard, woman seen in Colonia Park in Oxnard, California, the ones who left Marina's California, the ones who left Marina's California, the ones who left Marina's daughters there in December 1989. She's daughters there in December 1989. She's daughters there in December 1989. She's also trying to identify and locate the also trying to identify and locate the also trying to identify and locate the woman Victoria Garcia who matched with woman Victoria Garcia who matched with woman Victoria Garcia who matched with Melissa on Ancestry, who blocked them Melissa on Ancestry, who blocked them Melissa on Ancestry, who blocked them both.

both. both. And she's trying to identify who we're And she's trying to identify who we're And she's trying to identify who we're calling Fernando David, who may be calling Fernando David, who may be calling Fernando David, who may be Fernando Coronel. Fernando Coronel. Fernando Coronel. She thinks David is his real name and She thinks David is his real name and She thinks David is his real name and that he works in maintenance at a that he works in maintenance at a that he works in maintenance at a hospital in the Phoenix area, and again hospital in the Phoenix area, and again hospital in the Phoenix area, and again sometimes goes by Fernando Cornell. sometimes goes by Fernando Cornell. sometimes goes by Fernando Cornell. Now, this man had ties to Bakersfield, Now, this man had ties to Bakersfield, Now, this man had ties to Bakersfield, California in the '80s and '90s. So, California in the '80s and '90s. So, California in the '80s and '90s. So, anyone with information about these anyone with information about these anyone with information about these people or Marina's murder, please people or Marina's murder, please people or Marina's murder, please contact the Mohave County Sheriff's contact the Mohave County Sheriff's contact the Mohave County Sheriff's Office Special Investigation Unit in Office Special Investigation Unit in Office Special Investigation Unit in Kingman, Arizona. The number is Kingman, Arizona. The number is Kingman, Arizona. The number is 928-753-0753. The extension is 4408. But, all of the The extension is 4408. But, all of the case developments have been received case developments have been received case developments have been received differently by differently by differently by like all of Marina's different family like all of Marina's different family like all of Marina's different family members. members. members. Melissa was reluctant to learn more Melissa was reluctant to learn more Melissa was reluctant to learn more about her past, but she has gone on to about her past, but she has gone on to about her past, but she has gone on to meet her new found relatives. She even meet her new found relatives. She even meet her new found relatives. She even flew to Puerto Rico to meet her grandma, flew to Puerto Rico to meet her grandma, flew to Puerto Rico to meet her grandma, her aunt Margarita, and her oldest her aunt Margarita, and her oldest her aunt Margarita, and her oldest sister Maria, who actually just passed sister Maria, who actually just passed sister Maria, who actually just passed away this summer while we were reporting away this summer while we were reporting away this summer while we were reporting on this case.

on this case. on this case. Esther, who was such a wealth of Esther, who was such a wealth of Esther, who was such a wealth of information to Lori in the beginning of information to Lori in the beginning of information to Lori in the beginning of this, too, this, too, this, too, >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> has also since passed. >> has also since passed. >> has also since passed. Margarita says that she is eager to get Margarita says that she is eager to get Margarita says that she is eager to get to know her nieces, and she still feels to know her nieces, and she still feels to know her nieces, and she still feels like it is a miracle that they have been like it is a miracle that they have been like it is a miracle that they have been found. found. found. So, for all the mysteries in this case So, for all the mysteries in this case So, for all the mysteries in this case still remaining, I do want to celebrate still remaining, I do want to celebrate still remaining, I do want to celebrate the answers that have come. the answers that have come. the answers that have come. In June, Margarita, Melissa, and other In June, Margarita, Melissa, and other In June, Margarita, Melissa, and other family members met with Lori in Arizona, family members met with Lori in Arizona, family members met with Lori in Arizona, and they visited Marina's gravesite and they visited Marina's gravesite and they visited Marina's gravesite together. For three decades, her grave together. For three decades, her grave together. For three decades, her grave marker just read Jane Doe. marker just read Jane Doe. marker just read Jane Doe. Might have stayed that way forever. And Might have stayed that way forever. And Might have stayed that way forever. And who knows? Maybe it will be one of our who knows? Maybe it will be one of our who knows? Maybe it will be one of our Crime Junkies who helps solve this case Crime Junkies who helps solve this case Crime Junkies who helps solve this case once and for all. once and for all. once and for all. Crime Junkie is an Audiochuck Crime Junkie is an Audiochuck Crime Junkie is an Audiochuck production. production. production. I think Chuck would approve.