What Was Overheard Before Heather Turner's Funeral?

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. >> And I'm Britt. >> Listen, last episode I told you about the life and [music] death of Heather Turner. By May 2017, Heather was planning to leave her husband for another man after what she alleged was years of abuse. She was encouraged by a judge at the courthouse where she worked to get a protective order. But she didn't think that was necessary. She said [music] that she and her husband Andy weren't sleeping in the same bed anymore and she was going to get out [music] soon. In fact, on Tuesday, May 2nd, Heather told a co-orker that she was going to leave Andy that weekend. On Wednesday, May 3rd, she and the man that she was having an affair with allegedly made [music] plans to resign from their jobs the next day so they could be together. But Heather never made [music] it to work the next day to do that because that morning, Thursday, May 4th, [music] Heather was found naked on her bathroom floor with a single gunshot wound to the head. it was her husband who called [music] 911. He told responding deputies that he never saw this coming. That the whole evening from [music] after dinner till the wee hours of the morning, he and Heather were getting intimate. Then he fell asleep and the next thing he knew, he [music] woke up to the sound of a gunshot. The ME determined Heather died from a self-inflicted gunshot [music] wound, but they left the manner of death as undetermined, pending further investigation. But that investigation just kind of puttered out with no real

conclusion, which left Heather's loved ones feeling like they were going [music] to have to be the ones to fight for justice. That fight caught the attention [music] of a TV show that put Heather's case on a national stage in 2022. That's when all of the rumors and speculation [music] that had been swirling locally in that Justice for Heather Turner Facebook group got laid bare alongside all of the evidence that [music] Heather's friends and family were having trouble reconciling with. The stuff that I haven't even told you about yet. And the show had a surprise source [music] who from the shadows came forward to say that they saw something on Heather's body [music] and just before her funeral that has them very concerned that the truth [music] is being covered up. This is part two of Heather Turner's story. Brit, before I get into what this source from the documentary said that they saw and witnessed, [music] I want to run you through kind of the culmination of all of the pieces of evidence that people close to this [music] case had been picking apart in the years leading up to 2022 and [music] what theories this led them to. So, let's talk about the physical evidence in the bathroom where Heather died. One central question that has [music] plagued many people who have looked at

this case is, was Heather taking, about to take, or finishing a shower when she died? >> Yeah. >> So, when deputies arrive, remember there was steam coming from the bathroom still. >> In the 911 call, there is a moment where Andy specifically tells dispatch that he's going to turn off the shower [music] so that he can hear them better. We know Heather is found naked with what the coroner said in her report looked like wet hair. And based on the blood spatter pattern and the voids, it looked like she was wearing a towel around her when she was shot. So those who argue that Heather did not take her own life say that [music] this makes no sense. Like she steps out of the shower, water still like running and then grabs the gun and pulls the trigger. Like that feels off, right? Like even just the fact that she was naked, if I have any say in how I go, I don't want a bunch of people finding me naked. And listen, I had to check myself a little bit. I was like, you know, maybe this is a you thing, boo. Like, so I actually looked it up and there was a study published in 2021 titled Homicide or Suicide: How Nudity Factors Into This Determination.

>> Oh. >> And after studying almost 120,000 [music] deaths, it said that results indicate that a female victim being found nude is a strong indicator of homicide. >> [music] >> Now, of course, not an impossibility, >> but it is rare. >> Exactly. [music] Now, according to what Andy said, she was getting ready for work, so maybe she was going to need to shower after that marathon husband and wife time that they were having. >> Okay, but let's play that out for a second. First of all, I mean, forget everything we know about the time leading up to her death, which would lead us to believe she was at least telling people she was sleeping in another room. Didn't want to touch Andy with like a 10ft pole. >> Yeah. say tonight [music] everything's good again. They have this like all night husband and wife time. >> Yeah. This mar sexathon. I was say marathon sexathon. Whatever it was. >> Then what flips and makes her want to take her own life. And when does that >> right if everything is good? This is something that bothers me because according to Andy in the investigative records, Heather kept her gun in her purse [music] in her car. So, did she go out and get it that morning while Andy was sleeping after he's saying they were having a great time? Did she go before like the shower or before she was even like came in the room that night like that?

>> And did did she have it waiting for herself like in the bathroom like planted there earlier? >> But that would make this more planned than spur of the moment. But again, everything about stepping out of the shower, towel wrapped around you, the water still running and a note with just five words gives off spurof the- moment vibes, which [music] makes no sense with what we know about her night. Unless what we know about her night is a lie. >> Well, that [music] would change things. Yeah. And this is another huge sticking point for people. Honestly, [music] this is the biggest hurdle for me. Everything I've learned about Heather and how she felt about Andy and what her plans were [music] makes it so hard for me to understand her being in a place mentally where she's consensually having sex with Andy from again [music] after dinner till like 4 or 5 in the morning like he claims [music] to deputies. and this all of this.

>> And remember that email I told you about in the first episode that Heather sent to Rob, the guy she was seeing from work, the one she was planning to leave Andy for? >> That was dated April 5th, [music] so like a month before. And she's telling him she's literally sleeping at the kitchen table to avoid being in their bedroom where like she alleges Andy had like locked her away in. She says Andy is like saying he'll bury her before he signs divorce papers. So, I'm not saying that she [music] couldn't have gone back to him. I mean, if she was in an abusive relationship, like she was telling people, going back is usually part of the cycle. >> But, I'm sorry, like, help me get through the timeline. I mean, April 4th, she claims Andy locked her in her bedroom. April 5th, she wakes up at the kitchen table to avoid going into the room with him. April 23rd, Andy searches, "Does suicide void life insurance in the US?" And May 2nd, she told a co-orker she was going to leave Andy. May 3rd, [music] she makes plans with Rob. They're going to resign from their jobs eventually, like be together, literally in writing. She makes plans with him for that coming weekend. And then she goes home that night and according to Andy, >> everything is fine.

>> Everything's hunky dory. They have consensual sex all night long. And then she just decides to take her own life out of nowhere. Make it make sense. But [music] if she didn't pull the trigger, then you have to contend with the note. That is another point that [music] comes up. The note is in Heather's handwriting. But Heather was a writer. I mean, she wrote long notes to Andy when they first met. She would write little notes and leave them around the house. You can see some of them in the bathroom, like on the vanities. She also wrote longer letters to Rob. Even like her quick end of the day note the night before she died to Rob was a page long. So I'm sorry, I love you just doesn't make sense to me. [music] >> No, but maybe she wrote it at a different time. >> So that is what some people suggest. [music] And we've seen that in other cases, right? Like remember with Alyssa Turney, her sister Sarah always believed that the note supposedly left by Alyssa saying that she was running away was actually from a different time.

>> I wanted to know more about the notebook that this note was found written in because when I look at the photos that the CSI [music] unit took, it's like this spiralbound notebook and it's open to the page with the note on it. [music] We asked the sheriff's office if there was anything written on the pages before or after the note, but they didn't have that information. >> Do they still have the notebook? >> They do in evidence still. But interestingly enough, in Andy's book, he said that the note was written in his travel planner, which is like I've shown you the picture. That doesn't look like a >> I was going to say, is his travel planner a spiral brown notebook? Then >> that is the same question I had. But as a reminder, we reached out to Andy about Heather, about all his relationships, and he declined to participate in our coverage and said that the sheriff's office has all the [music] facts. So again, we relied on his book for many of his statements. So say Heather did exactly what they say. She wrote the note, she crouched down, and pulled [music] the trigger. The blood spatter on the closet door in the bathroom lines [music] up with that. But in the corner's report, she noted that the wall by the toilet looked washed. And I actually have a picture of it that I'm going to show you.

>> Okay. So, this wall here. >> Yeah. Like where it's a little bit darker. >> Yeah. >> So, the popular theory among skeptics [music] is that maybe there was blood spatter on that wall that was like wiped away because it would have told [music] a different story. But Andy says that this was just the start of like a painting project that they [music] were doing. >> And like in the layout of the bathroom, where where like is this wall? >> Oh, to so >> like to orient myself in the room. >> We didn't get a diagram of the bathroom, but we did get a ton of pictures of the crime scene. So, we made our own kind of mockup of the layout. When you walk in the door, like going from left to right, like in front of you, you have the tub and then you have the shower and then the linen closet and then the toilet. So Heather is found laying near the linen closet and the toilet. [music] Linen closet is what has the blood spatter on it. And the wall with the window is beside the toilet. That's the one that looks like wet or something. >> Yeah, it looks wet, but like no visible blood.

>> No, just the closet has blood on it. [music] So they say she was like crouched down when she pulled the trigger. Now another major point of contention, speaking of pulling the trigger, [music] is which hand Heather used to pull the trigger. Now, reminder, the Emmy said that Heather's entry wound was on the left side. [music] Heather's family, notably not Andy, but Heather's family, says that Heather was right-handed. [music] So, they don't understand why she would shoot herself on the left side. >> So, her family says right-handed. Does Andy say left-handed? >> No. So, Andy told the sheriff's office that Heather was ambidextrous. But [music] ambidextrous or not, here's what's even more odd to me. Heather had blood spatter on both hands, [music] which made it look like she was gripping the gun with both hands, right? Which, like, invision it. They're saying the entrance wound is on her left side, like below her ear. >> So, she has like >> both hands.

>> Yeah. Like around the grip to like pull the trigger. It's uncomfort to me. It's >> unnatural. >> Yeah. Like so much of the case, it's not impossible. Like, of course, you can do it with two hands, >> but then like why >> why exactly? Well, Eric Eckles, [music] he is a PI who was hired by a woman named Mary Aldridge. [music] Mary is the family's advocate who brought this case to us. So, she hired this PI to help with Heather's case, [music] and he put forth a theory about why there could be blood spatter on two hands. And I want to be extra clear that this is purely a hypothetical put forward by him. [music] But Eric says that the revolver's barrel and the grip are about the [music] same width. So he says maybe Heather was crouching down on the ground like [music] in fear. Maybe because a gun was pointed to her head and she used her left hand and then her right hand over top of it to [music] grab the barrel and then the gun still went off. I mean, if she wasn't holding it right up against her head, that could explain why there wasn't any like stippling, >> right? I mentioned that in our first episode that the Emmy didn't know any kind of muzzle burns or stippling, which was [music] a huge issue for people, which brings me finally [music] to the surprise source that dropped some bombs in 2022 on national TV. [music] This was the local funeral home director, who by the way knew Andy's [music] family, but they were so concerned with what they

saw that they got in touch with Heather's family kind of early on in the investigation. [music] And then they later went public when the TV show It Couldn't Happen Here [music] decided to feature this case. But they participated under the condition that the TV show would hide their identity. And we spoke [music] to this person directly. We verified who they are, but they still asked not to be named because of all the uncertainty surrounding this case. [music] >> But here is what the funeral home director had to say. >> When Heather came in, [music] the director knew next to nothing. Like funeral home directors don't get autopsy reports or investigator stuff. They were basically told, "Listen, you got a suicide gunshot wound to the head. We need to get her in good enough state for a [music] viewing." Mhm. >> Now, the same day that Heather's body was sent to the funeral home, there was a teen brought in who also died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. But the director said that the two cases looked completely [music] different. To be clear, this director is not a forensic expert, but they say that they have worked on more than a hundred cases similar [music] to this, and Heather's wounds just didn't make sense to them.

They say they saw a small pencil eraser sized hole on the top right [music] of her head, like around the temple, then a larger quarter size hole [music] by her left ear. These are the same two small wounds that the coroner noted in her report at the scene. Now, the director made note that there were no muzzle burns, that stippling or whatever I was talking about on either of the wounds. [music] The teen did have that, though. Now, we did some research and not all cases of suicide [music] by firearm have this, like stippling or muzzle burn. But the funeral home director told us that almost every other case that they've worked like this had some form of stippling or muzzle burn. Now, based on the size of the wounds and the right side being the smaller of the two, the funeral home director assumed, again, without getting any information, just making assumptions, >> assumed that the right side was the entry wound [music] and the left side was the exit wound. It wasn't until later that they learned there was supposedly no exit wound and that the bullet was found still lodged inside Heather's skull.

>> So then what was that hole then? >> This is it. Like so the me the sheriff's office everyone is very clear that [music] there is an entry wound on the left >> and no exit wound and that wound defect whatever it is like on the top right that like the funeral home director seeing the corner is seeing that's not even mentioned in the Emmys report. So officially it's like it didn't exist. And I spiraled about this. Like I wondered if maybe that whole could have been the result of the skull fractures that they talked about, but they don't say that specifically. And like if it's a skull fracture from the inside and made a wound on the outside, you think that would be mentioned. >> So then I thought, okay, maybe this wound was made by the Emmy to like extract the bullet from Heather's head at autopsy. >> But they don't say that either. And if that was the case, [music] then it wouldn't explain why the coroner says she saw it at the scene before Heather even is taken away for the autopsy.

>> But would it if it was caused by the skull fracture? Well, this is what I'm saying. Like they don't mention a laceration or anything in the Emmy report that would be made from like the inside out. So like if it was there, if that's what it was and if something was there, why wouldn't you even document it? Right >> now, we talked to the coroner by the way. Her name is Lindsay Eberhart Fuller and she made it clear she is not going against the Emmy. [music] She does remember seeing that wound on the scene, but she does not know what it was. [music] And she says if the Emmy is saying it wasn't there, she's not saying they're wrong. But the official ruling stops nobody from [music] talking about this case. Honestly, this is probably the biggest debated [music] piece of evidence in this case. hands down this like entry wound, exit wound, right, left, because people spiral saying that if there was an entry wound that was actually the top right of her head, then the trajectory would have like a downward angle, like someone was standing over her.

>> It changes like everything about this case. >> It feels like it makes suicide less likely. But here's the thing, of everything that gets argued in this case, this actually seems like [music] the least compelling to me, >> right? Because like no exit wound, the bullet's still in there. >> Still in there, right? Like like I find this hard to argue with. Like I don't know what that like right side wound or defect is. But if it was a bullet hole and we know the bullet is still in her, then like there shouldn't have been an exit wound, but we know there is this large hole on the left. Like I do think that is the entry wound. So like [music] the other one can't be an entry wound from her gun. >> I mean was there another gun that we haven't talked about yet? >> No. I mean and I don't even think that's ever been like speculated. like her gun is the gun that was used. The left wound is the entry wound. [music] >> But still, even knowing that ruling, the funeral home director felt like this wound on the top right has to mean [music] something, whatever it is. And that's because of what happened right before Heather's funeral.

They tell us it is typical for families to come in and view their loved one before everyone else is allowed in. And everyone reacts differently, but what happened at Heather's was a first for this director. [music] They say that Andy and his dad, Curtis Turner, immediately walked up to Heather [music] and started like rifling through her hair. It looks like to them that they were like looking for something. And the director just kind of like stayed back with another funeral home employee, giving them space [music] in privacy. But what they're doing feels weird. And while they're looking through Heather's hair, Curtis asks the director about some wax that was used to cover up one of the wounds. Now, that's [music] an odd question. Whatever. What gives the director full body chills [music] is what they say happens next. According to the investigative records, they hear Andy say, quote, [music] "Daddy, I thought you took care of that." And then Curtis goes, "Son, [music] everything is all right."

Uh, took care of what? [music] The director had no idea. Didn't ask, so I have no idea. But learning [music] this just compounded public suspicion. Yeah. Because this is not the first [music] time dad has shown up in this investigation. You see, [music] I hadn't told you this before, but there is a moment in the 911 call that Andy made that morning. He found Heather where Curtis gets on the phone to [music] help direct deputies to the house. We He was there. Both of Andy's parents were [music] because he called them before he ever called 911. Between working with our reporters, post-production team, recording, and you know, running a company and being a wife and mother, I get approximately 30 minutes for me time every day, which [music] means if I want to get a workout in, it needs to fit in whenever and wherever I find [music] time. And sometimes, honestly, that's right here in my office. I don't have a full gym or a team to help me stay in shape. But what I do have is a little bit of space to move, a couple of weights, and the ladder app. With the Ladder app, it's like having a personal trainer right in my headphones, pushing me not just through every set, but week after week as my training plan builds off the work I've done through structured training [music] blocks. And it's not just the elite level coaching that you get. The Ladder app offers community [music] and built-in nutrition tracking. And you get

all of that for less than $1 per day. Remove the guesswork [music] with Ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. No thinking, everything planned for you. [music] If you have an iPhone, head to ladder.fit/crimerjunkucky and take a quiz to find your perfect ladder plan. Use my link and get a free 7-day trial with no credit card and $10 off your first [music] month if you join. Before Andy called 911, he called his mom [music] Pam four times. Andy's call logs look like this. So at [music] 557 there is a less than 3second call. 557 again less than 3se secondond call. 558 [music] less than 3se secondond call. 559 he makes a 14-second [music] call. And then at 559 he calls 911. Now what this looks like to me is Andy like calling, getting voicemail, calling, getting voicemail, calling, getting voicemail. Then she picks up.

>> Now there may have been a legitimate reason for him to reach out to them first. According to Andy's book, he says that he called his mom because he knew that she would be up and getting ready for work. And Andy just told her like he needed someone to come be with their daughter because Heather shot herself, which is what she and Andy's father [music] did. They got there shortly before first responders arrived while Andy was still on the phone with dispatch. Now, nothing about this timeline actually looks off to me. He got a hold of mom at 5:59. They live about 10 minutes away and you can hear them arrive while Andy is still on the phone with 911 dispatchers at [music] 6:11 a.m. >> And I'm going to play you a short clip so you can hear for yourself Curtis like taking over for Andy and talking to dispatch. >> Who is this? >> I'm sorry. >> I am Andy's father. >> Okay. All right. So, this is this is Andy's parent? >> Yes. >> Okay. And you believe she's beyond our help?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Now, despite what we are led to believe in true crime [music] documentaries, the current Pauling County Sheriff says it's not uncommon for somebody to call a loved one before dialing 911. And listen, before I even keep going, I want to make something really, really clear. [music] Curtis has never been implicated in any kind of cover up or involvement in Heather's case. But I do want you to understand the rumors that were going around, even [music] if they were unsubstantiated because it all plays into how this case has become so big for the community. [music] So, knowing that Andy's dad, Curtis, was showing up, this weird thing with [music] like the funeral home director, people began to wonder if dad [music] was called that day to take care of something or to just be around. Because by the way, Curtis, I think I told you this, he was a traveling pastor. [music] And this like rumor starts going around that at one point he may have been the pastor of the sheriff whose department was originally in charge of [music] this case. However, nobody can nail down when that was, and they don't think it was [music] at the time of Heather's death.

Plus, despite the rumors, the sheriff at the time was never actually on the scene, which [music] is like something I think is worth mentioning. >> Yeah. What I assume they're thinking is like he might have like sway or something like influence with the department. >> Yeah. I think the advocates for Heather worry about what influence he had. Exactly. Because remember there were odd things done like the fact that Andy's hands got washed before the gsr tests were done on him according to deputies reports. [music] >> And I mentioned briefly last episode that Andy had changed his clothes too, but deputies didn't collect those or at least didn't collect his shirt. And like what significance do they [music] think that has? >> I think it just highlights like more of a sloppy investigation. Like wouldn't you want the clothes that he was wearing to see if the blood patterns match up to what he says was happening or what he says he did? [music] Like he's holding her when deputies arrive. He says he did CPR on her. I feel like they should have at least like been looked [music] at. I don't know. But listen, there is one other part about like Andy's parents being there that morning that people really hone in on, and it's another part of the 911 call. Some people say that Andy says on the call, "Mama, I [music] did it."

>> Yeah, that feels really relevant. >> It would if it were black and white, but the part that they're talking about, it's hard to hear. So, it's it's not super [music] definitive. Like, it's more up for interpretation. And we actually got the 911 audio in our like foyer request. I hear him say, "Mama." The rest is hard for me to make out. Okay. Can you just like I I need to hear it now. Uh yeah, I'll play it for you. [laughter] >> Andy, if you Let's keep doing compressions. Okay. Hard and fast about 100 times a minute. >> At least two inches. Okay. Take a deep breath for me, Andy. Andy. Andy, take a take a deep breath. Okay. You still want to keep doing compartments. Okay, this is going to sound kind of bonkers. I don't hear to be [music] to be clear, I don't hear anything after mama that like first time. And I don't hear I did it. [music] I could kind of hear I killed her maybe. Yeah. Where it's connected to mama. Everyone says mama I did it. And so like when I I hear I don't hear that at all.

>> Yeah. >> I kind of see what what you just pointed out. I mean it's it's garbled. It's messy. But like I >> Wait, hang on. Let me just play it again. >> Yeah. >> Andy. Andy, take a take a deep breath. Okay. You still want to keep doing compressions? right there. Okay. But like, yeah. So, the rumors are like he's saying I did it or I killed her. I don't I don't know what that is. It is so hard for me to hear. And to me, it's a little bit of the confirmation bias. Like, would I have picked that up if I hadn't read the Facebook comments? [music] Like, >> right. >> If I hadn't told you like, hey, this is what like >> or there's something here to hear, right? >> Yeah. I mean, I would love to know what other people think. Like, what do they hear in this call? To me, this call is so central to people's theory and to to what was happening that morning. But I >> I don't know. I just know that the people who are saying that they believe Heather didn't take her life really believe that there [music] is a confession on that call. So, knowing all of this now, now that you know their relationship histories from episode 1, [music] you know that Heather is telling everyone she's planning to leave Andy that weekend. And then you get all of these other little things that >> like the call on their own they don't prove anything >> right but like together all lined up in a row.

>> You can see why somebody who loved Heather might feel like they have to question [music] everything. >> So that is what they had been sitting with for years. But now this is when 2022 is when the public gets a really good look at everything when it's featured on this show. And I have to imagine that things got a lot worse for Andy, who was trying to move on. So, I don't know if this TV show and this public airing of the case is [music] what sparked this or if he already had it in the works, but the next year, 2023, is when Andy releases his book [music] that I have been referencing last episode and this episode. >> It's called Who Turned Up the Silence? [music] And the book isn't just about like Heather's death. It's more of like a memoir and reflects on his entire life. Obviously, Heather's [music] life, death, their marriage, the investigation that followed. It's a huge part of it. >> And this was clearly his attempt to [music] take back the narrative.

>> The ME had all but ruled his wife's death as suicide. It was her DNA on [music] the trigger, her hands that tested positive for GSR, her gun, her handwriting on a goodbye note. He wanted to move on with his life. this was going to be his definitive [music] stance on the case. But the problem I have is that there are parts of this book where Andy just completely rewrites history. Take for instance the gsr testing that they did on Andy to [music] prove that he hadn't handled the gun. I told you in part one that Andy wrote about investigators doing a gsr test on him before his hands got washed and he says that they were immediately negative results. Like [music] at the scene they got negative results. >> And is that in the records? >> No, it shows that they tested his hands after [music] EMTs washed them. And the results that we have in the file say that the lab didn't even receive the samples for like 13 months. But we can agree on the end they did come back negative. Now he also wrote in his book that he was doing CPR, breathing two breaths [music] and doing 25 compressions and like blood was hitting his face and eyes like in his mouth. Problem is responding EMTs told the GBI years later in 2019 that they don't recall seeing any blood on

his face when they arrived. So, it's [music] stuff like that that makes me pause >> and stuff like that that would make it like really nice to have his clothes to help out with this one, like just support [music] >> a narrative. >> Yeah. And of course, the way he talks about his relationship with Heather [music] feels inconsistent with everything that we have heard or read about in the investigative files. [music] Like with the facts of this case, like if you want to be super kind to Andy and give him a pass, like say he's going off his memory, he probably didn't have the reports in front of him. Trauma does wonky stuff to the memory. This is years later. You can do that. But I don't understand the picture he paints of his marriage to Heather [music] and everything that led up to the night that she died. There's a a specific passage near the end of his book that I want to read. It says, quote, "Never was there a complaint, a report, a bruise, or an allegation until she died of her own valition. Then from boyfriends and family, this comes out to slander and hurt our family. And for 6 years, they have thought this is acceptable behavior." Heather did not care for them. She lied to all of them just as she did our family. She was never leaving her home, kids, security, and husband.

And that comes after the part in his book that he says [music] he had no idea that Heather was allegedly having an affair. Actually, now he says that he found out after her death that she was having multiple affairs while he was nothing but faithful to her. [music] Except, like I said in episode 1, we know from deputies reports. >> He was saying it like at the scene. >> At the scene, he's at least telling them about the affair she was having with the guy at work. And he's saying this at the scene, >> right? It's like basically one of three reasons that he can come up with for why she would have just taken her own life out of nowhere. >> Yeah. >> And there is something that feels so frustrating like when you're reading this book because even if there are like things [music] that that line up like they're talking about the same thing sometimes all I have now is like Andy's account. There is no other side to it. Like for example, we know that Heather was saying that their marriage was forged. In his book he talks about that too. It seems like they like agree kind of about what happened, [music] except he is putting all of the blame on Heather for that, which might be true, but this goes back to what I said at the very top of episode one. If two people are in a room and one of them dies, can you ever really know the full truth? [music] >> This is part of the reason that we wanted to do this episode. And I think this [music] is a lot of what people are

fighting for just to make sure that there is a record of both [music] sides of this case because right now it feels like Andy's book is [music] the like one of the only easily accessible sides that is [music] out there. Though I'm not really sure the impact that this book had on the community because half of the people we interviewed for this episode hadn't even read it. And I don't think anyone advocating for Heather stopped [music] because he wrote it. In fact, they may have been pushing even harder because the following year, Heather's case gained enough attention [music] that when Ashley Henson runs for sheriff, providing closure to Heather's case becomes a major part of his election campaign and he ends up winning. So, he has to put his money where his mouth [music] is. Our reporter spoke with Sheriff Hensen and he said that when he got into office, he looked [music] at what the previous administration's cold case team found and then he reviewed the case [music] himself with the help of the GBI.

>> The GBI, the ones who said she died by suicide in the first [music] place. >> Well, their their ME said that it was consistent with self-infliction, but the GBI did rule it undetermined until the investigation was done. So [music] anyways, they're coming in and reviewing everything that the investigation found and in the end [music] they all conclude that Heather Turner died from [music] a self-inflicted gunshot wound still. So on February 20th, 2026, [music] the sheriff's office ends up holding a press conference, letting the community know that they were officially [music] going to close Heather's case. In the 43minute press conference, they admit that [music] investigative mistakes were made and they say that they've learned a lot since Heather's [music] case took place, but they say they can't ignore the evidence. And that is what they looked at. [music] They say just the evidence. They say there was a lot of speculation and rumor, but they felt like all of these rumors had just been like made up online with no one behind the screen standing in front of their claims. like anything they said they tried to run down [music] kind of just played out like some big game of telephone.

>> However, I don't know who they were talking to or like or what they're talking about because that was not our experience during our reporting. Our reporters are diligent. They reached out to so many people that stand by the claims that they made in investigative files, specifically individuals who told detectives what Heather was telling them. But I guess they [music] were just dismissed as not credible. And again, sheriff's office is looking at [music] just the evidence. And they made a point to say that they weren't going to look at social media posts or even read Andy's book to decide what happened here. We're looking at the evidence, which like I appreciate because sometimes they don't even look at evidence. But also, I mean, maybe read the book because I think changing or differing stories can be evidence. Well, they actually got to talk to Andy [music] as part of this reinvestigation, >> which maybe that's what they're like, they don't need to read the book cuz they spoke to him. I don't know. But he finally agreed to be interviewed. He even lets his daughter, who is now a teenager, talk to investigators, too.

And the sheriff's office says that she [music] recounts that morning just as she did back in 2017. She was sleeping. She heard a loud noise. She went to her parents' room and when she opened the bedroom door, she saw her dad like get out of bed and go towards the bathroom. [music] Anyways, they say after looking at all of the evidence, which I will walk through piece by piece, they conclude that Heather Turner wasn't attacked after showering. [music] In fact, they don't think she ever showered at all. They say that she went into the bathroom, turned on the shower for some reason, maybe to muffle the sound. We'll never know. and she was in a squatting position holding the gun with both hands to steady herself before she took her own life. But her hair was wet. They actually say [music] it wasn't. They say that the coroner may have thought it looked wet because of all of the blood, [music] but they say it was not wet. And they are clear that they do not believe Andy ever [music] confessed to doing anything on the 911 call. That part that everyone points [music] to, I mean, you heard it. It it is pretty inaudible.

They say as much in the press conference and they also say that they had the Secret Service enhance and analyze the call and they couldn't find any evidence of him admitting to killing his wife. Also, the sheriff's office says that the timeline [music] tracks. There is no gap of time between when Heather is shot to when Andy called his mom and then called 911. >> I mean, [music] devil's advocate though, it doesn't mean that she pulled the trigger. It means that there was no time for staging though or washing the walls, which they say did not happen. [music] They say that their investigators went back out there after reading the coroner's report. They tested the wall with luminal, but they didn't find any [music] evidence that the wall had been wiped clean. The sheriff's office told us that it looked like kind of what Andy is saying. I told you Andy is saying that it's from a painting project, not like someone's washing away blood. This is another one though, like we didn't talk about this earlier when I showed you the picture. I have a picture of the wall I showed you. And I have a picture of the painting project that they're talking about. And I don't know the the wall in the bathroom doesn't look like the painting project wall. Like they reference like a wall by the front door.

Like just >> And that's this other one. >> Yeah. They're saying that what what you see by the front door is >> like how it's like the front by the front door is like almost a textured wall. Yeah. >> And it looks like >> spongy painting everyone loved back in the day. >> Sponge. Um, it looks like that, but I can't tell if it's just like the angle. It's darker in that corner. It doesn't look as textured as by the front door. >> And it's like one >> It's not the same thing. >> I not to me. I don't know. But, you know, they keep moving on. They're basically giving their list, right? So, they say the gun is near Heather, one registered to her with only one bullet missing. One bullet is found still lodged in her skull. Her DNA was on the trigger. Her hands tested positive for GSR. [music] In the same room as her body, they found what they call a note of intent. And there were two pens in the bathroom, they say. So, I think to them, they're taking this as a sign that that note was freshly written.

>> They say that all the blood patterns line up with her being in the crouched position near the bathroom closet, pulling the trigger [music] as she steadied the gun with both hands. And they even go into detail demonstrating and showing like crime scene photos of the blood patterns on her hands to show like how they say she would have been gripping the gun. [music] And even though the coroner's report noted a wound on the right, they say that there wasn't one. And they point out that even the deputy who responded to the scene noted in his own report that Heather had a gunshot wound on [music] the left side of her head. Nothing mentioned about the right side. The official stance is that there was nothing there. [music] And they say, "Listen, the corner was fresh on the job. The funeral home director is not a trained medical expert." [music] And they also address the rumors that there was no muzzle burn along the [music] wound. The sheriff's office say that in the autopsy report, the medical examiner found soot at the wound. >> So, they're saying that there was muzzle burn. No, Brit. Me and the team went round and round and round and round about this. I'm pretty sure soot and stippling are not the same thing, but maybe that's like too deep into the minutia for this. Either way, the sheriff's office is saying there was soot and so therefore she was shot at close range, [music] even if it wasn't direct contact.

Finally, remember how I told you that Andy's dad may have been the former sheriff's pastor? >> [music] >> Yeah, >> they specifically addressed this, making it clear that the former sheriff was not on scene. And Sheriff Henson told us that they're pretty sure Curtis wasn't that sheriff's [music] pastor at the time. So, the sheriff's office ends the press conference saying that these are the facts [music] and all of this is in the evidence. So, the case is finally officially closed. But there is still one person who wasn't fully ready to close [music] the book. And that is Pauling County Coroner [music] Lindsay Eberhart Fuller. The same newly elected coroner that was called out for Heather's initial death investigation. [music] Except now she is in her third term and she spent almost 10 years serving in that position. [music] She has seen and experienced and learned so much more in her time as coroner [music] and she still feels like something isn't sitting right with her about this case.

And there is one Hail Mary place she has to try and do something about it. Truthfully, so much of the steam that [music] has built up around this case stems from the coroner's report. the wet hair, the weird part of the wall that looked washed, the second wound on Heather's head. But Lindsay, the coroner, admits that her report isn't the end all be all. She just wrote down what she saw that day, which was no stippling or muzzle burns. [music] And she did see a second hole. And she told us she vividly remembers it all even [music] now. You see, she knew Heather from the probate court. Heather was even at her swearing in. And she said her mind was swirling when she got to the scene that [music] day, but she was there to do her job. She said that she had gone in and there was blood everywhere. It was awful. And there's all these people, detectives, deputies, CSI, like all in and around the bathroom. It was hard for her to get around and investigate and not disturb anything. But immediately after leaving the scene, Lindsay says that she went back and she wrote her corer's report.

>> [music] >> She knew from the moment she walked into that bathroom that this was going to be a big deal. And she wanted to get everything down on paper while it was still fresh in her mind. And she even told her deputy coroner [music] that this case was going to be around for a long time. Lindsay made it clear to us that she is not here to buck the system. She is [music] just here to do her job. So it was her job to call for that autopsy. And to be clear, she is still not disputing those findings. She told us that if they found the bullet and say that the entrance wound is on the left side, not the right, that's what she defers to, but she does want to clear something up. In the autopsy report, it says that the coroner is viewing this as a suicide. [music] And Lindsay told us that was not her professional opinion. She was just relaying what investigators for the sheriff's office were saying at the scene. She understood the ruling of undetermined because like the GBI, she too thought the pending death investigation should be completed and the results of that taken into consideration when determining how this case would come to a resolution. So, she sat back and let the sheriff's office do their job for [music] nearly 10 years, but she did pour over the case files herself in that time. [music] And so when the sheriff's office got up in February and gave their press conference, she couldn't help but feel

like they left a lot of concerning things unressed. What they talked about was the physical evidence. Yes. But what was left out intentionally, right, as they pointed out, >> was all of the circumstantial evidence that Lindsay believes is relevant, >> right? It's not like evidence is all evidence, not just the physical evidence. And she's not even just talking about all of the relationship context that I told you about, the allegations of abuse, Heather's [music] plan to leave Andy right before she died. Lindsay said that Andy also demonstrated some strange behavior after [music] Heather's death. Like for example, she says that he called her just hours after Heather died asking Lindsay about the death certificate, saying something about insurance not paying out for suicide. >> The internet search comes back around again. Ah, and did he [music] end up getting a life insurance payout? >> He did eventually. So, the press conference didn't satisfy all of the questions that Lindsay has and all the questions she knows the community has. And she tells us it is her duty as coroner to instill the trust of the community and let them know that she's ensuring that the most comprehensive look at the case is being done before what she considers real resolution is provided [music] and there is a power she has as the elected coroner to give that one [music] more shot. So, as we were reporting on this case, Lindsay announced that she is going to be calling a [music] coroner's

inquest, exercising her right to lay everything out in the courtroom in front [music] of a jury. She says that she's not going against the sheriff. She just wants everything, not [music] select details, everything laid out and on the record. This inquest has been set for January 2027. [music] Our team is going to be following that inquest closely. Now, the only thing that could delay it is if the sheriff's office decided to reopen the case, but Sheriff Henson told us there is nothing in the case file that provides [music] probable cause for an arrest warrant. He says if there was, you can best believe that they'd have an arrest warrant already served up, but he says they don't. It's going to take some groundbreaking evidence to change [music] their opinion or maybe the right person with the right information. Now, Andy also weighed in on the inquest with a [music] statement to a TV news station 11 saying that his family is disappointed in the coroner and calls for quote [music] stronger regulations and meaningful qualifications for the elected coroner. Lindsay says that she will accept whatever the jury's verdict is after the inquest and she'll update the death certificate knowing that she did everything in her power to find answers for Heather's loved ones who are still questioning her death. [music] Everyone wants resolution. And Lindsay says that through the law, resolution

comes through an inquest. Listen, I don't know what Heather went through on her last night from sundown to sun [music] up. I don't know what state of mind she was in when she went into that bathroom that morning. And I don't know what happened before Andy called 911, [music] but we talked a lot about the Micah Miller case last episode, making comparisons. And much like that case, even if Heather Turner pulled the trigger, I think we're missing [music] the point if we don't talk about culpability. >> What drives a person to feel as [music] though they have no way out? to think that death is better than going on one [music] more day. >> Yeah. In the Micah Miller documentary, they called it um murder by suicide. >> Yeah. In any scenario of this, [music] I hope her daughter is doing well. Some of the allegations of abuse that we heard put her right in the room where it was happening. And I don't know what that's like to grow up with that as your example of love. I'm sure she misses her mom every single day and loves her father.

>> [music] >> both can be true for her. And as a mom, I think Heather would just want her own daughter to have a [music] better ending than she did. That's certainly the hope that I have for maybe the person listening to this now who finds themselves in a cycle [music] of abuse. I mean, if we talk to them for a second, like I know that that can feel so isolating [music] and so like specific to you and your situation, but abusers have the same moves, the same playbook. >> Like, I know I gave you guys all this last week, but I want to reiterate it because it is so important. You know, we've done a lot to support organizations working within the domestic violence prevention [music] sector, especially here in Indiana where the federal government has reduced funding for domestic violence services while at the same time domestic violence. They're skyrocketing. They're going up. >> And Brit, I know you know this, but we have invested here in a per a director of philanthropy, a single person who all they do all day every day is think about how we can give back and engage with our community. And there is an entire committee of employees at Audio Check dedicated to make sure that our giving has the biggest impact. We gave $175,000 in October to DV nonprofits here in Indiana. And that's on top of the 1.3 million that we have given to domestic violence organizations over the last seven or eight years. That work is saving lives. [music] But the thing is, I know these episodes are too, like we're getting the messages

from [music] people. So, I was thinking of how we could reach people [music] maybe in a new way. And I asked Andy's former fiance, Christy Chup, who we talked about in episode 1, if she would be open to sharing more of her story directly with our [music] listeners about what was going through her mind every time she went back. [music] the story she had to tell herself, the lies she was made to believe, and how she eventually broke the cycle of abuse that she had been trapped in [music] since childhood. This part of the episode might just reach one person, and that would be worth it, but I doubt the numbers are that small because the CDC reports that nationally nearly [music] one in two individuals have experienced psychological aggression from an intimate partner. >> [music] >> That statistic is unreal. But I know that means that there are people listening right now who are trying to get out. [music] And I hope this episode and the conversation I'm about to play can help you. [music] I'm going to play you some of the most impactful parts of our conversation now. They've been edited for time and clarity, but you can watch the extended version right now on our YouTube channel. So Christie, thank you so much for letting us share your story, for coming on and letting so many people hear your story. We've we've talked about so many cases similar to this one in our 8 and a half years. And I've

talked to experts in domestic violence. We've talked to survivors. We've talked to family members of of loved ones that they've lost. And I think anyone is susceptible. I think this idea that there's a a victim and and not a victim is wrong and and that is true. I remember uh going to the police it I I'd already went back like five or six times, but I was trying to get away again and I was just so embarrassed to the I was telling the officer like I'm so embarrassed like I keep going back to this. I was like and I told him I was like I'm so dumb. He said he said I know women in the police force. I know people that's been lawyers and have seen this happen and still got sucked into that domestic violence cycle. So there is no thing as a a painted picture of a victim. It could happen to the the the smartest woman in the world because I mean everybody wants to be loved. But what I should have seen as a really big red flag in the beginning was that Andy wanted to know everything about me. like he said it was because I was going to be around his children. He was very protective of his of his children. So he wanted to know like everything. And so I I spewed my whole life story. And that is such a no no because then he took those things and throughout our entire relationship he used well you never had

a father growing up. You never had a dad to show you what love looks like. So now I'm teach I'm trying to teach you what love looks like and he would just use like he wanted all this information and throughout our entire relationship all that information ended up being used like backfired and just used against me. >> Um yeah it it was so quick and I fell for it. >> The good cuz you're like like what what keeps you there? What kept you there was this balance between yes this is the the things some things are awful but some things are so good like what is it what did it look like when it was so good for you guys? For me, I felt like I had never been in love the way that I loved him. And it was to the point where I felt like I would do anything in the world for him. Because I think as a child and never having parents and searching, not knowing that I was searching, but for someone to to really feel like somebody loved me, uh was a really big thing. And there was just moments of where like um he would lay his head on my chest and just tell me how he's never felt anything like that before. Uh little things like touching his face.

He's like I I've never let anybody touch my face. Like you're the first person I ever let do that. um would compare me to his deceased wife and was like like I I'm scared because I feel like I love you more than I ever loved her and she was the love of my life. So those things just filled me up so much that I I truly felt like I had never found that kind of love before in my life. And that was that was the part that was so hard to let go. I knew that I wanted away from the abuse and I knew that he was hurting me, but I couldn't let go of the good side because it was just I mean it was just the most fulfilled I've ever felt in my life. So he really did become my identity. So when I left I was like who am I? Like I have nothing. I mean I don't know what to do in my life now. Like this was he was just everything in my life. And now that's gone. What am I supposed to do now? And I think it uh it really took years of like learning who I was. I went to college, graduated college. Um just selflove. I think in that relationship, I depended so much on his validation and him saying like I' I've never had somebody like as good as you. Like you're you're great. You're so beautiful. and and that's how I was able

to love myself by knowing that I was doing something like making somebody else feel so great. Um I've always been a people pleaser. So, uh just leaving and not having that anymore. And it it took me years of like now I love myself. Like now I can't tell you how good it feels. I I don't have to worry about like what's going to happen today or sitting in my bathroom floor like asking God to give me a sign like is he more dangerous than all these really bad things these very abusive moments like can he do something worse to me and I don't think it was me asking actually I was asking his deceased wife I wasn't asking God she was she was deceased so I was like can you please give me a sign and I don't think it was necessarily me asking her that was me asking myself because I I I knew that he is abusive. So that was my own intuition saying, "Hey, you see how abusive he is? Like how bad do you think this is actually going to get before you actually leave?" Is there I've so I've been the family member, the loved one, the friend on the other side of this who who is seeing it, who's hearing it, who's trying to help the person I love.

If somebody listening right now isn't isn't in the relationship but knows someone who is, is there what is the best thing from your perspective? What could have someone have done for you that would have changed your perspective, made you feel like you could go back to them when you were ready? >> I think with my family it was that they always had something to say and it was judgmental. Um and and what they seen I didn't see. Even my very best friend had picked me up one day because he had um gotten very abusive. And it was in the middle of winter. There was inches of snow on the ground and I just sat on the curb outside waiting for her to come pick me up. And she was like, "He's brainwashing you. Like how do you not see this?" And I was like, "No, it's not as bad." And so it was people pointing things out to me that I didn't understand that I wasn't seeing. And I I think that just really put a bigger barrier. If if anything, I feel like they could have been there um and just kind of just stayed in the background to let me know that they were still there when I was ready. Um instead of trying to force it on me to see those things. When was the point where you were like I where you finally the veil was lifted and you saw what was happening?

>> Um so I was sexually assaulted by him and it last all night and um that's the only time he actually put marks on me like a black eyes bite marks um busted lip and um that next morning he he came and got my children. And he's like, I'm going to take them for breakfast. Is that okay? And then for some reason, I'm like, okay, maybe things are about to change. But just that night, it just it replayed and replayed and replayed. It was I mean, I know I had a terrible childhood, but it was literally the worst night of my life. And that was just something I could not get over. And so I did end up going to the police about it. And um I wanted a restraining order. I wanted away from him. But unfortunately, the day of our restraining order, I found out I was pregnant by him and I was losing the baby and was isolated. I still didn't have my family back. I didn't have like my sisters or anything like that. So, I had nobody to talk to about it. So, I did end up going back after that. But, that's when the veil really lifted and I was um I was like, "This is never going to change." Did you ever talk about what you were going through to anyone in your life or did you keep it a secret? So, I had nobody until the point the abuse got

[snorts] uh pretty bad and I ended up making a Facebook post about it and a um a lady, her name is Mary, she reached out to me, was offering like could she help me any what could she do to help me to keep me safe? And from then on, she was just my person. Every time he hit me, he hurt me. She was the person that I called. And that was that was so impactful for me, I think, because it wasn't family who was judging me. This was somebody on the outside just looking in and like listening to me. And she'd sit there for hours and hours on end just listening like, "I understand." And she uh every time I'd go back, she's like, "It's okay. I I understand you went back. I mean, you love him and that I mean, it it's okay to love him. So, yeah, I I had that one person in the end and I really owe the woman my life.

Literally, I owe I owe her my life. Um, and I still talk to her. Um, talk to her all the time. And that's why I choose to share my story now because um if I can just be that person that she was for me to save another person um and help them get out because um I know how hard it is. So now I choose to [snorts] share my story so that maybe I can make a difference in somebody else's life. >> And you speaking of good things that you've done for yourself. So, you went back to school like like you've really taken time to focus on you and and invest into you instead of pouring into other people. And I want people to hear that part of the story, too. >> Yeah. So, actually that domestic violence relationship is what sparked me going to school cuz I was like, I don't want this to happen to anybody else.

Like, I like I want to help people who are going through this. So, I went to college and recently graduated with my criminal justice degree and I am continuing Thank you so much. I am continuing my education and um I just really hope to advocate for other people in my future. I I hope to find a career where I can really make an impact in somebody's life like I told you like Mary made in mine. >> Well, I have no doubt you're going to. >> Thank you so much. Thank you so much. >> Thank you, Christie. We did reach out to Andy and gave him a chance to respond to this [music] interview. He gave us a statement that says in part, "Christy is an admitted perjurer. She uses our family tragedy as a pedestal to gain attention." He also wrote, "Pause and think. If 1% of any of these things were true, I'd be you dur a jail. I think he means under or in jail." For anyone who may be trying to leave an abusive situation and needs help immediately, please reach out to the National [music] Domestic Violence Hotline by texting start to 88788.

And for legal information pertaining to [music] your state, reach out to women's law.org for information on protective orders, custody, housing [music] protections, and more. Crime Junkie is an Audiochuck production. I think Chuck would approve.